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Megan
Skeptic Friend
USA
163 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2002 : 13:26:49
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Just wondering, is it against my (our) freedoms that our currency had "In God We Trust" on it? I know that currency falls under government/state stuff, and I also know that our country was founded/based on religious freedom.... ok I'm starting to confuse myself.
~Megan~
BTW, I'm a 15 year old that never stops asking questions(=P).
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2002 : 14:30:32 [Permalink]
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quote:
Just wondering, is it against my (our) freedoms that our currency had "In God We Trust" on it? I know that currency falls under government/state stuff, and I also know that our country was founded/based on religious freedom.... ok I'm starting to confuse myself.
~Megan~
BTW, I'm a 15 year old that never stops asking questions(=P).
Ok. Technically, the words violate the separation clause of the first amendment because it respects (in general) an establishment of religion. It is so gratuitous that the words loose their meaning. In practice, the courts tend to refuse to hear cases like these.
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2002 : 15:20:29 [Permalink]
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This is nothing other than a case of, "We're going to do what we want, Constitution be damned." Only certain religions have a god named 'God.' In order for the phrase to be religiously neutral, in that it doesn't promote a specific religion, it would have to be something like "In a god we trust." Now, I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I carry a black Sharpie around for on-the-go paper money doctoring. I know others do this too. I suppose it would be nice to get one of these bills as change one day.
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field.
-Niels Bohr
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Antie
Skeptic Friend
USA
101 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2002 : 16:09:58 [Permalink]
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quote:
Now, I'm not saying it's a good idea, but I carry a black Sharpie around for on-the-go paper money doctoring.
Yeah, just put an "l" between the "o" and "d" in "God."
Ian Andreas Miller. DIES GAUDII. |
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Megan
Skeptic Friend
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2002 : 18:23:50 [Permalink]
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So what you guys are saying is that it isn't violating our rights? I know that it doens't say in the Consitution that they can or can't put that on our currency, but it just doens't seem right for the government to that on our currency when a great deal of people don't even believe in it. Is this something that is way over my head?
~Megan~
BTW, I'm a 15 year old that never stops asking questions(=P).
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2002 : 18:38:02 [Permalink]
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It's way over mine, too.
This is probably one we'll have to give them simply on a practical basis. I think that it violates the letter of the constitution, but no one short of Madeline Murphy O'Hare would pursue it. Certainly the polititions would avoid it at all cost, especally with the administration we have today. The religious right are currently enjoying great power.
But, who knows? Perhaps some day.....
luck,
f
"Don't tell me your doubts; I've got enough doubts of my own. Tell me something you BELIEVE in!"
Brother Dave Gardner |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 07:27:50 [Permalink]
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quote:
So what you guys are saying is that it isn't violating our rights? I know that it doens't say in the Consitution that they can or can't put that on our currency, but it just doens't seem right for the government to that on our currency when a great deal of people don't even believe in it. Is this something that is way over my head?
~Megan~
BTW, I'm a 15 year old that never stops asking questions(=P).
What I'm saying is that it does violate our rights just no one will do anything about it.
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Slater
SFN Regular
USA
1668 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 10:08:22 [Permalink]
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And while we are at it, that Masonic pyramid with it's all seeing eye on the back of the ones is pushing it too.
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It will sometimes be necessary to use falsehood for the benefit of those who need such a mode of treatment.
----Eusebius of Nicomedia,
[i]The Preparation of the Gospel[/i] |
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Dead God
New Member
1 Post |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 10:20:30 [Permalink]
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The reply to your question, Megan, is that the phrase does violate the establishment clause. A lot of Christians like to point to the fact that "In God We Trust" is on our coins and dollar bills as proof that the country was founded on religious beliefs in general and, some argue, Christian beliefs in particular.
The truth is that the phrase didn't appear on the nation's money until well after the nation had been formed. The phrase first made an appearance (albeit short lived) on coins in the 1860's, but didn't become a permenant addition to all our money until around 1954 during the great "Red Scare" brought to us by Senator Joseph McCarthy. You may find a rather in-depth article on the subject called "God on our coins" at the following URL: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jon_murray/coins.html
I hope this helps to answer your question..
DG
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 10:43:12 [Permalink]
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Hmm... interesting. As a Brit it just made me take out a £5 note (in fact, the only note I have in my wallet!) and have a look at what we have on our money. Nothing like that at all, although of course, we have Queen Elizabeth II, who is head of Church and State on them. Which implicitly amounts to the same thing, I guess.
Still, we have no written Constitution to violate, either!
"Specialisation is for insects." Robert A. Heinlen |
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Bradley
Skeptic Friend
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 11:01:57 [Permalink]
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quote:
...As a Brit it just made me take out a £5 note (in fact, the only note I have in my wallet!) and have a look at what we have on our money. Nothing like that at all...
I'm not exactly sure what a British five pound note looks like, but if it bears the abreviation "d. g. regina" or the phrase "dei gratia regina," (which is Latin for "queen by the grace of god") as does the Canadian currency which I am familiar with
(I live in a suburb of Detroit, Michigan on the U. S. A. - Canada border), then your money does indeed have religious graffiti on it.
"Too much doubt is better than too much credulity."
-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833 - 1899) |
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NottyImp
Skeptic Friend
United Kingdom
143 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 12:49:22 [Permalink]
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quote:
I'm not exactly sure what a British five pound note looks like, but if it bears the abreviation "d. g. regina" or the phrase "dei gratia regina," (which is Latin for "queen by the grace of god") as does the Canadian currency which I am familiar with
(I live in a suburb of Detroit, Michigan on the U. S. A. - Canada border), then your money does indeed have religious graffiti on it.
I couldn't find that on the £5 note, but it does appear on our coinage, by the looks of it.
Still, I'm a staunch republican, so that's the least of our worries.
"Specialisation is for insects." Robert A. Heinlen |
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ronnywhite
SFN Regular
501 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 13:23:28 [Permalink]
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quote:
I keep wondering whether, or when, we'll go to a cashless society and we won't be annoyed by those things. It appears we've moved in that direction at an amazing pace during the last 2 decades, and although the potential for abuse is there, the benefits would be tremendous. Personally, I think it's inevitable.
Ron White |
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Donnie B.
Skeptic Friend
417 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2002 : 14:29:22 [Permalink]
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Sssshhh, ronnie, not so loud. Next thing you know, the Fundies will be demanding that VISA and MC put "In God We Trust" on our plastic, too...
-- Donnie B.
Brian: "No, no! You have to think for yourselves!" Crowd: "Yes! We have to think for ourselves!" |
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PhDreamer
SFN Regular
USA
925 Posts |
Posted - 03/19/2002 : 09:49:23 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
So what you guys are saying is that it isn't violating our rights? I know that it doens't say in the Consitution that they can or can't put that on our currency, but it just doens't seem right for the government to that on our currency when a great deal of people don't even believe in it. Is this something that is way over my head?
What I'm saying is that it does violate our rights just no one will do anything about it.
This is my opinion as well, Megan. Sorry if at times I tend to write a lot of words but say very little.
An expert is a man who has made all the mistakes which can be made in a very narrow field.
-Niels Bohr
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