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Marc_a_b
Skeptic Friend
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 06/12/2001 : 13:10:41 [Permalink]
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There are thing man was not ment to know. Such as exactly what the ingredients are in hot dogs and sausages. 
The floppy eared thing in London is not a perfect clone. Sure it was supposed to be just like all the ones that came before it, but there are slight differences. The true narcacist would want identical ones, right off the assembly lines, to reduce even those slight differences.
I agree research should continue, especialy with the prospect of spare parts. Technicaly I think the ear was grown in a mold and inserted into the mouse's back to check for rejection. Maybe in the future a nose job will involve growing a variety for the person to choose from. 
Just be sure to keep watch in case the fundies start stocking up on pitchforks and torches.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 06/12/2001 : 14:09:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
There are thing man was not ment to know.
quote:
Such as exactly what the ingredients are in hot dogs and sausages.
ROFLOL |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2001 : 14:20:31 [Permalink]
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quote:
There has also been talk of growing a clone just to have a steady supply of organs available for transplanting. If you think abortion makes a lot of people emotional, this one would be sure to work people up.
@tomic
Gravity, not just a good idea...it's the law!
They are actually doing some stem cell research that could help some people out. The research is done on donated human embryos from fertility clinics. They only needed a few fertilized eggs and the rest they experimented with. There is some sucess in developing heart cells from this process. In addition, there is some work in using stem cells to repair parapeligics connection to the spine. It might be interesting to keep investigating this as cloning of individual organs is ok in my book. Cloning of complete humans is not.
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Boron10
Religion Moderator
USA
1266 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2001 : 14:41:48 [Permalink]
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quote:
Cloning of complete humans is not [OK].
I am curious why you believe this. I am still working on my own beliefs regarding this issue, so any more input in either direction would be appreciated.
-Timmy! |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2001 : 15:12:52 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
Cloning of complete humans is not [OK].
I am curious why you believe this. I am still working on my own beliefs regarding this issue, so any more input in either direction would be appreciated.
-Timmy!
I believe that every functioning human being has a soul. Organs do not have souls, humans do. Organs are the pieces parts (and parts is parts) which make life possible. The soul is that which gives it direction. I believe the soul attaches itself to the human somewhere between 3-4 months after conception. Given the madness that money can buy, I would not put it past some billionaire to have several clones to supply parts for him/herself. I believe it is wrong to use humans in that way. Since it is a clone, the legal issue of whether it is a person or property comes up.(shades of slavery) The idea that if you have enough money, you can buy immortality in this way is completely against all that I believe. It does harm to a living, sentient creature. By cloning parts, no sentient creature is harmed.
At least that's what this old Wiccan believes.
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2001 : 23:53:29 [Permalink]
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quote:
quote:
quote:
Cloning of complete humans is not [OK].
I am curious why you believe this. I am still working on my own beliefs regarding this issue, so any more input in either direction would be appreciated.
-Timmy!
I believe that every functioning human being has a soul. Organs do not have souls, humans do. Organs are the pieces parts (and parts is parts) which make life possible. The soul is that which gives it direction. I believe the soul attaches itself to the human somewhere between 3-4 months after conception. Given the madness that money can buy, I would not put it past some billionaire to have several clones to supply parts for him/herself. I believe it is wrong to use humans in that way. Since it is a clone, the legal issue of whether it is a person or property comes up.(shades of slavery) The idea that if you have enough money, you can buy immortality in this way is completely against all that I believe. It does harm to a living, sentient creature. By cloning parts, no sentient creature is harmed.
At least that's what this old Wiccan believes.
1st of all, some parts are already being 'cloned' without bodies. And next, what you propose is too way out and even if it was eventualy possible it's so far off in the future and you know how the 'government' is, they will find a way to either tax it or prevent it, lol. I don't think you have anything to worry about.
"It's all hype, until you prove it"
T. |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2001 : 01:57:55 [Permalink]
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quote:
Here's a link I found that may throw some more gasoline on the fire...
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/cloningflaw010705.html
(:raig
Well, I know you are trying to help but
1). Stories like that in the common news papers are NOT the whole story. I think one would have to read the entire text of the studies to get all or enough information to make an judgement.
2). Look at where the study was done! And the difference of opinions.
If you think about it, at 1st it might look like there are problems, but I think it's not all that much 'fuel'. More like planting a story to get people to be upset and try to stop it. IMO
"It's all hype, until you prove it"
T. |
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Mespo_man
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2001 : 08:55:11 [Permalink]
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quote:
Well, I know you are trying to help but
1). Stories like that in the common news papers are NOT the whole story. I think one would have to read the entire text of the studies to get all or enough information to make an judgement.
2). Look at where the study was done! And the difference of opinions.
If you think about it, at 1st it might look like there are problems, but I think it's not all that much 'fuel'. More like planting a story to get people to be upset and try to stop it. IMO
Hi Snake,
This thread could easily spill over into the Media folder 'cause that is precisely how information is dispensed to "everyman". How many people are going to pour over every study, cover-to-cover to make an informed opinion? Not many. Even the law making politicians are going to have briefs and summaries put together by their staffs. Complete with political agendas, axe grinders, horse trading and posturing.
We're not talking about making improved seat restraints for NASCAR racers. We're talking about human beings. The American (world?) public will have very little tolerance for "OOPS" when it comes to assembling a person. If the analogy to a factory assembly line sounds ridiculous, perhaps it is. It is also what the public is being sold AND what they want to believe. How many mistakes will it take before the villagers grab their pitchforks and torches and go after Frankenstein?.
The worst case scenario is not the number of fetuses that will fail to come to term. It is the ones that are born and THEN fall apart; days, months, or years later. They will live long enough to become part of a media circus. Poster children for those who would go after the "mad" scientists. Freak shows that would have made P.T. Barnum toss his cookies.
While dedicated(?) scientists will seek to make improvements, they will have to contend with a public demanding revenge, retribution and compensation. Never lose sight of compensation. Hell no. You don't have to be thrown in jail. You just have to be sued into oblivion.
Cloning technology will probably leap way ahead of legislative controls and the fight will become positively ugly. This is one of those rare issues where everyone with an agenda or just a simple opinion is going to jump in with both feet.
Are we having fun, yet? 
(:raig
Rape, Pillage, THEN Burn. [Mongolian Hoards Handbook] |
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Deborah
Skeptic Friend
USA
113 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 03:39:43 [Permalink]
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quote:
 Surprised not to have seen this subject talked about. I'd like to know what's the big deal that so many people are against it?
So what, so someone makes another being that looks just like another. BIG deal! Can someone explain why those that are against it, are?
I think the arguements that people give against cloning humans are valid concerns, but not enough to prevent it from happening. I plan on having Mr. Kitty cloned as soon as it is available. I only hope it's sooner than later because he only has a good 6-8 years left in him.
I do wonder about cloning and what kind of impact it could have on evolution.
I believe that the biggest arguement with cloning is going to be one that already exists today, which is nature vs nurture. A clone will have its own set of experiences to be influenced by. I can see that a clone might have identity issues, such as a child who has been adopted. Maybe clones will be afraid to "come out" like homosexuals for fear of ridicule and damnation by the fundies. Clones will be the new minority. What do you think the national symbol for the "Rights for Clones" group will be? Ahhhh...a new poll for our website  .
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Snake
SFN Addict
USA
2511 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2001 : 04:15:16 [Permalink]
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I think the arguements that people give against cloning humans are valid concerns, but not enough to prevent it from happening. I plan on having Mr. Kitty cloned as soon as it is available. I only hope it's sooner than later because he only has a good 6-8 years left in him.
I hear people are doing that now. Have you checked into it, Deb. Although, I think in one interview with someone who does it, he said it's not perfected yet with some animals. Dogs or cats could have been one kind. Sorry, should have paid more attention. Never thougtht I'd have to tell someone about it.
quote:
I do wonder about cloning and what kind of impact it could have on evolution.
That's an interesting question. My guess just at the moment,.... it would speed it up. After all, it's selecting what you want to breed, right? But being more precise.
quote:
I believe that the biggest arguement with cloning is going to be one that already exists today, which is nature vs nurture. A clone will have its own set of experiences to be influenced by. I can see that a clone might have identity issues, such as a child who has been adopted. Maybe clones will be afraid to "come out" like homosexuals for fear of ridicule and damnation by the fundies. Clones will be the new minority. What do you think the national symbol for the "Rights for Clones" group will be? Ahhhh...a new poll for our website .
That sounds a lot like when the 1st 'test tube' baby was born. They were following her around as if she was some kind of weird creature. I never understood why. It didn't seem so strange to do something like that then and now it's so common. So clones would be also. They are or will not be different then any other human, as far as I know. It just doesn't sound strange and I can't understand how anyone would make a big deal about it.
VHEMT |
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