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JRB
New Member
USA
37 Posts |
 Posted - 06/14/2001 : 13:59:42 [Permalink]
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quote:
If anyone shares the blame with him, it is the lying whores of the conspiracy theory industry, not the victim(s).
Bravo!
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 14:03:04 [Permalink]
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quote:
(:raig Miller
(USN during 'Nam)
quote:
Cool! I was attached to the O.N.I. in Vietnam myself.
You both have my respect; I'm a bit young for that conflict, but not too young to have known well people who were in it.
Slater, I never worked with ONI, though I did some work supporting PACFLEET on Makalapa. (Can't beat the Navy for neverending unpronounceable acronyms).
My brother flew EP3's after a stint instructing at Corpus Christi. Same type of surveillance plane (not "spy" plane, dammit) that we're trying to get back now except it was ASW.
My kids still love me. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 15:01:33 [Permalink]
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Rubysue, no flames and no rising blood pressure today. I have friends from both Nam and Korea that still experience nightmares about war today. One gentleman still can't work around a lot of people.
Garrette as regards the Marines, (this is rumor, tho I trust the source), but one young man wrote his mother that his SDI (Senior Drill Instructor) hit him. The platoon after the SDI was replaced decided to have a blanket party. 
 Bestonnett I have to take exception to your comments as regard the military. Most that I have met in the military always detested the thought of going to war. The few who were eager for war were very changed in their opinions upon return from the Gulf.
I processed a lot of those coming back from the Gulf, all returning troops were supposed to attend lectures regarding recognizing PSTD and other things. Though these lectures were approximately an hour long and woefully inadequate and delivered from a type written page passed to their respective commanders.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Bradley
Skeptic Friend
USA
147 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 15:45:23 [Permalink]
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More fitting than the death penalty would be to convict this disgruntled individual to a life of bustin' rocks on a chain gang. What is it with these conservative extremists and their dad-gum-guv'mint attitudes? This was the same crowd that a generation ago was whining, "Love it or leave it." I guess these folks aren't happy unless this country is involved it some pointless dick-waving protracted military venture.
"Too much doubt is better than too much credulity."
-Robert Green Ingersoll (1833 - 1899) |
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Piltdown
Skeptic Friend
USA
312 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 17:06:45 [Permalink]
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quote:
Aren't people forgetting that often the military is a place where the insane go.
Afterall, when given a choice between a mental home, or being able to go overseas and act our your fantasies of killing people which course of action would the insane person take?
Interesting thing is that many of those who are considered to be great military heros were probably insane.
Gee, Best, I thought you were my friend ;) or, at least, an Orion co-conspirator. It surpises me that someone who shows so much intellect and so much willingness to ignore pop-culture dictates in other areas (eg nuclear power) would accept the pop-culture establishment's MASH inspired view of the military. I might personally be insane (I don't think so, but I wouldn't know, would I?) but it is wrong to generalize too much from this.
George Patton is often cited as an example of a nutcase general. He was flamboyant, personally rich, believed in reincarnation, wrote poetry, and sometimes let violent emotions get the best of him. It has occurred to me that if a 60s thowback pop-culture pacifist demonstrated these qualities, they would be considered admirable.
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 18:45:54 [Permalink]
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I've written this is snippets, and on re-reading it it's awfully choppy to me. Sorry. But it touches on one of my peeves: the tendency in the U.S. to force a global solution (which turns out really just to be a sugarpill that makes the doctor feel better for having prescribed SOMETHING) onto what is after all a personal problem or a buddy-to-buddy problem or a small unit problem where it can be best dealt with.
I'll shut up. It's been a busy 24 hours typing for me.
My kids still love me.
[/quote]
Well put. The PC-ness of the military started to really get to me the last couple of years. I joined the AF during the cold war. What was important then? Training. Not only in my primary job (electronics maintenance tech), but M-16, .38, driving deuce and a halfs and 5 tons, and field survival.(clearing a foxhole of spiders SUCKS, and I HATE spiders)
Lemme see, what training did I receive in my last five years? A two day course on customer service, ie how to be polite on the telephone. Right, if I can't explain that to someone in ten minutes, they don't deserve to have a phone. Let's not forget the yearly sexual harassment classes. (Which would have gone a little better if Andy, Dave, Kevin and I weren't trading the latest dirty jokes. Wow, was that trainer pissed at us!) There's lots more useless s**t I've had to sit through. My point is, we've gone from war and tactic training (our job) to some big social experiment.
I was offered another 2 years past my twenty. My response is unprintable. Since Ed is coming back here to Ellsworth to retire, his former commander called me monthly to beg him to re-enlist. Ed's response is more unprintable than mine, since I had to ask around to find out what some of those words meant.
Okay, enough rant on that.
Question: are Trish and I that bad? I just got an e-mail from my half brother. We haven't seen each other since I was about 9. I told him about this site, so he's been lurking. Now he says when we meet in a month or so, he's going to pat me down for knives. Geez, don't mean to come across that way.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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James
SFN Regular
USA
754 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 20:18:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
Lemme see, what training did I receive in my last five years? A two day course on customer service, ie how to be polite on the telephone. Right, if I can't explain that to someone in ten minutes, they don't deserve to have a phone.
Right. Like that's useful.
quote:
Let's not forget the yearly sexual harassment classes. (Which would have gone a little better if Andy, Dave, Kevin and I weren't trading the latest dirty jokes. Wow, was that trainer pissed at us!)
LOL
Let me guess, the trainer was all like, "This is serious. This is very serious."
ROTFL
quote:
There's lots more useless s**t I've had to sit through.
You mean there's more?
quote:
Question: are Trish and I that bad?
Nah. 
quote:
I just got an e-mail from my half brother. We haven't seen each other since I was about 9. I told him about this site, so he's been lurking. Now he says when we meet in a month or so, he's going to pat me down for knives. Geez, don't mean to come across that way.
Then again, put yourself in his shoes. And think about it.
"Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." -Master Yoda |
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 21:28:54 [Permalink]
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quote:
Lemme see, what training did I receive in my last five years? A two day course on customer service, ie how to be polite on the telephone. Right, if I can't explain that to someone in ten minutes, they don't deserve to have a phone. Let's not forget the yearly sexual harassment classes.
Just an observation here.
Traditionally, those who sought out a military career were those who had a desire for public service (like those in law enforcement, firefighting, etc.). The perception I get, just from the recruiting commercials, is that it's all about high tech jobs & world travel (oh yeah, and some respect from your peers). It's all about "you". In order for the military services to compete with industry for the best people, they have to appear more enlightened than most corporations.
I am also afraid that among many people, the impression of the wars of the future is comuter geeks pressing buttons and winning sanitized wars in days.
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/14/2001 : 23:37:37 [Permalink]
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Hey Lisa, I had to teach those damn sexual harassment courses. About the toughest thing to do is stand in front of about 250 male Marines and say, 'This period of instruction is about Sexual Harassment...'
Course, by the time I was done, I had everyone listening and laughing and my SgtMajor was red... By the time I had thoroughly finished using every swear word I knew and every dirty joke I knew to describe what sexual harassment was...needless to say, I was asked to teach other classes, 'cause the guys actually paid attention to me. Then I'd remind them, to know who they were talking to male or female before they started with a dirty joke...
Course there was the Cpl in S-1 (Admin) who told me to turn in my Maj, Capt, Gunny and Sgt for sexual harassment and personal servitude for using terms like 'hon' and 'sweetheart' and also asking me to get them coffee when I went to get mine. Gee, I can't carry four extra coffee cups? Needless to say, I warned them that she was a problem. Found out later that she had claimed sexual harassment against her previous Gunny during a formation run. Real Wench! The one SSgt refused to testify against Gunny saying she would have strangled him but believed him incapable of sexual harassment...
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Garrette
SFN Regular
USA
562 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2001 : 08:24:03 [Permalink]
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Trish: Sorry I didn't get to experience your classes; you sound like my kind of trainer. I tended to work that way (still do in the civilian world). And I've met people in the Army and out like your CPL who throw sexual harrassment charges around to cover their incompetence and laziness. Fortunately, I've met many more who understand, and enjoy, the vagaries of life and simply get on with it.
quote:
I am also afraid that among many people, the impression of the wars of the future is comuter geeks pressing buttons and winning sanitized wars in days.
True. And it's partly a media problem for focusing on the glitzy stuff like JSTARS during the Gulf, partly a recruiting problem because the military (okay, Army mostly; I wish the Marines would do everybody's recruiting commercials and everybody's uniforms) has bowed to pop culture with "The Army of One"--a slogan that few on active duty or in the Reserves care for as it goes against every principle we actually stand for--and partly a problem with civilian leadership who never attempt to understand what the military is about. One assumes that such civilians have the standard elitist attitude that the military can't be all that hard and must be populated with people who can't hack it elsewhere. Let them stack their corporate skills against the organizational experience and leadership qualities of a 24 year old TOW team leader and see if their opinion remains unchanged. Or at a different level, I doubt that 1 in 10 CEO's of the Fortune 500 have what it takes to run 7th Fleet.
quote:
Question: are Trish and I that bad?
Well, if speaking your mind is bad, then you're both horrible, awful, despicable people who should spend more time baking cookies. And send me some. No coconut, please.
My kids still love me. |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2001 : 12:24:32 [Permalink]
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Well, if speaking your mind is bad, then you're both horrible, awful, despicable people who should spend more time baking cookies. And send me some. No coconut, please.
Hint here, you really don't want to keel over from eating anything that qualifies for food in my house. The chow hall has better food! 
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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Lisa
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2001 : 12:50:56 [Permalink]
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quote:
[quote]Well, if speaking your mind is bad, then you're both horrible, awful, despicable people who should spend more time baking cookies. And send me some. No coconut, please.
Does that mean I'm supposed to take some of the "dough" stuff and put it in the big square thing in my kitchen?
Trish, it sounds like the classes you taught were a little more worthwhile than the ones I had to sit through. Too many of them just felt like we were "filling a block". I never had too much problem with sexual harassment. Most of the guys realized they'd made a mistake even before the bruises faded.
Lisa
Chaos...Confusion...Destruction...My Work Here Is Done |
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Trish
SFN Addict
USA
2102 Posts |
Posted - 06/15/2001 : 13:09:50 [Permalink]
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Lisa, after sitting though my first sexual harassment class and being instructed as to how to write the guys up for sexual harassment...get the picture. When it was assigned to me for the force march, well I went a little to the other end of the spectrum, slightly.
Gee, Lisa, you never broke any bones. I did on a couple occassions.
BTW, Lisa, the big square thing really burns the dough stuff if you forget its there.
He's YOUR god, they're YOUR rules, YOU burn in hell! |
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ljbrs
SFN Regular
USA
842 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2001 : 22:19:01 [Permalink]
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I do not think McVeigh is having any meals at the moment...
Better yet...
Give up cooking and baking, etc., and you will never ruin a meal again. Of course, you might starve to death, but you will look just great for a short while...
ljbrs
Knowing how to cook better, does not do better for your waistline...
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Greg
Skeptic Friend
USA
281 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2001 : 18:35:41 [Permalink]
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An interesting link. Tolerance.org is a project of the Southern Poverty Law Center. It's an excellent site, I recommend it.
http://www.tolerance.org/news/article_hate.jsp?id=223
The Intelligence Report discusses the (failed) plots to cause terrorist acts since the Oklahoma City bombing. There's also a link to a page that profiles some of these clowns. The full gamut of bullshit here: fundamentalist religious fanatacism, pseudoscience(!!!), and of course good ol' guv'mint conspiracy.
I used to think that these militia types were just a bunch of middle-age malcontents who wanted to play army but not have to show discipline. It looks like, at least in some cases, its a little deeper than that.
Regards,
Greg.
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