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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 09/26/2011 : 06:16:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
Will you deny that you altered thread 1 after banning MG ?
Removing some of your own comments and some others, comments that might have been embarrassing to you because you were shown to be stupid ? |
Where is your evidence? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 06:53:33 [Permalink]
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Sorry CRUX, we who have been here for years know that it takes an intentional act to get banned around here, if that intentional act is starting a thread to pick a fight or trolling, your thread will get the axe... MG had plenty of warning.
Dave and the admins around here are just about the most reasonable forum admins you will find. Hell, just look at how much time Dave dedicated to responding to your "arguments", insults do not make a position stronger. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 07:11:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
The relation is this: when the only variable - diet - is changed, the phenotype becomes different. It is the only "reason" available, for THE CHANGE. |
But that wasn't the question, as you said yourself:| The question asked was what causes a white flamingo to turn pink. |
The answer is "a combination of genes and diet." It's a question about causation, and not a question about what change in variables results in a change in phenotype. The genes may not change, but they're certainly part of the cause of the change. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 07:15:59 [Permalink]
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The problem with CRUX aka MG's use and understanding of phenotypes is problematic because he is not a student of science and is therefore using phenotype out of context. Phenotype-genotype and their distinction has to be used in the context of inheritance of traits. Genotype and phenotype in the broader context of genetics and genetics in the broader context of Evolution.
Even a laymans definition of phenotype states the relationship.
phe·no·type
1.
a. The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.
b. The expression of a specific trait, such as stature or blood type, based on genetic and environmental influences.
c. the physical appearance of an organism as distinguished from its genetic makeup. The phenotype of an organism depends on which genes are dominant and on the interaction between genes and environment.
Having said that. Here is scientific study to connect genes for carotenoid colorization in birds. (finch). Another group of birds for which the red color of their feathers depends partly on their diet are the true finches, My earlier link on why flamingos are pink also mentioned other birds like the finch.
The carotenoids are among the major pigments in avian plumage and provide bright colors to species in a number of orders. Birds cannot synthesize carotenoids metabolically, but can modify extensively those obtained in the diet. The chemical nature of the pigment molecules deposited in the plumage is at least partly under genetic control, as the genotype is initially responsible for the patterns and colors that distinguish each species. The genetic control of plumage colors is understood for some species on the basis of evidence such as the pigments found in sexually dichromatic species, color mutants, and hybrid populations. The biochemical processes and the organization of pigment deposition are under relatively simple genetic control.
Data so far obtained has shown that key genes involved in cholesterol efflux appear to also play a major role in carotenoid transport too. With a growing list of candidate genes.
Please stop this insanity. It gives a bad name to skeptics when denial of facts is based on miscomprehension, arrested development and reaching beyond the skeptics ability to argue on subjects that at least require some formal study or introduction.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 07:17:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
Here is some honest debate:Dave said:
Flamingos have different genes than do cockatoos. You ask us to focus on the differences that cause things, and so I will:Cockatoo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Cockatoo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals pink birds. What is different, CRUX? |
So he presented this as evidence. |
No I didn't. I asked you a question based on what you had been saying. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 08:31:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by CRUX
Here is some honest debate:Dave said:
Flamingos have different genes than do cockatoos. You ask us to focus on the differences that cause things, and so I will:Cockatoo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Cockatoo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals pink birds. What is different, CRUX? |
So he presented this as evidence. |
No I didn't. I asked you a question based on what you had been saying.
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DaveW I hope this isn't becoming personal with CRUX. You are now pointing out he is a liar too. I don't approve of CRUX skewing the facts...but are we applying critical thinking here. What if his delusional state, medication, poor comprehension of plain text is distorting his perception of reality. You have to sometimes know the person behind his anonymity to sympathize.
Here is the link to Candidate genes for carotenoid coloration of birds.
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/05/17/rspb.2011.0765.abstract
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CRUX
BANNED
192 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 10:51:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
[quote]Originally posted by CRUX
The relation is this: when the only variable - diet - is changed, the phenotype becomes different. It is the only "reason" available, for THE CHANGE. |
No, Dave. The cause of a flamingo turning pink is environmental input difference. It's the cause of the "turning". Not the cause of the state of pinkness. |
| Edited by - CRUX on 09/26/2011 10:52:24 |
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CRUX
BANNED
192 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 10:54:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by CRUX
Here is some honest debate:Dave said:
Flamingos have different genes than do cockatoos. You ask us to focus on the differences that cause things, and so I will:Cockatoo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Cockatoo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals pink birds. What is different, CRUX? |
So he presented this as evidence. |
No I didn't. I asked you a question based on what you had been saying.
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Wrong. Y.O.U. issued that statement asserting those things, and asked me a question about it. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 10:57:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
The cause of a flamingo turning pink is environmental input difference. It's the cause of the "turning". |
But it's not the only cause, since without the right genes, the environment could effect no change. Both are required for the change in coloration to occur. It's simply incomplete to state that the environment is the reason for the change. It's environment + genes.
We could all move on if you would admit this simple fact.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/26/2011 10:59:31 |
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CRUX
BANNED
192 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 11:01:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by CRUX
The cause of a flamingo turning pink is environmental input difference. It's the cause of the "turning". |
But it's not the only cause, since without the right genes, the environment could effect no change. It's simply incomplete to state that the environment is the reason for the change. It's environment + genes.
We could all move on if you would simply admit this simple fact.
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HH, The things you mention are not variables, because they do ..not...vary.
Within the groups, there is NO variance of those items. I appreciate your question.
We could move on, HH, if you would show which of them varies within the groups.
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| Edited by - CRUX on 09/26/2011 11:08:41 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 11:20:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
The cause of a flamingo turning pink is environmental input difference. It's the cause of the "turning". |
Plus the genes that enable the changing of the colors.| Not the cause of the state of pinkness. |
Quit trying to change the question. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 11:21:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
Wrong. Y.O.U. issued that statement asserting those things, and asked me a question about it. |
No, I asked you a question about the differences, because you asked us to focus on the differences. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 11:22:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
HH, The things you mention are not variables, because they do ..not...vary. |
The question did not ask "what varies?" as you have already documented. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 11:23:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
Will you deny that you altered thread 1 after banning MG ?
Removing some of your own comments and some others, comments that might have been embarrassing to you because you were shown to be stupid ? |
Where is your evidence? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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CRUX
BANNED
192 Posts |
Posted - 09/26/2011 : 11:27:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by CRUX
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by CRUX
Here is some honest debate:Dave said:
Flamingos have different genes than do cockatoos. You ask us to focus on the differences that cause things, and so I will:Cockatoo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Cockatoo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus normal diet equals white birds.
Flamingo genes plus carotenoid-heavy diet equals pink birds. What is different, CRUX? |
So he presented this as evidence. |
No I didn't. I asked you a question based on what you had been saying.
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Wrong. Y.O.U. issued that statement asserting those things, and asked me a question about it.
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and another thing, Dave.
If you did NOT believe that the statement you made was factually correct according to reports...
If you presented something doubtful from me, something not fit for evidence here, please show that it was from me.
I truly do not think I presented that.It was your gig, that. long term. |
| Edited by - CRUX on 09/26/2011 11:32:28 |
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If I get a haircut 2
