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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 06/11/2008 : 08:26:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
| filthy, it's true, the wrong kind of barracuda were sold in S,F, in the street market. Several people were taken to hospital and somebody died , it think. Wonder what fugu fish eat ? |
If by "fugu" you mean that species of puffer that is such a Japanese delicacy (that I am stupid enough to want to try), they eat corals. Coral toxins are what make the parrot fish & others contaminate the species that prey upon them. The fish themselves are resistant to these toxins, but we are not. It is my understanding that the preparation of those puffers is left only to the master chefs because a mistake could put the diner to great inconvenience & distress.
These relationships are fascinating. For example: species of nudibranchs (sea slugs) feed upon anemones and jellyfish, which, themselves predators, feed and defend themselves using highly toxic stinging calls called cniodocytes. These cniodocytes contain nematocysts which act like tiny, spring-loaded, venom-bearing harpoons and can be devastating, as anyone who's gotten tangled up with a Portuguese man o' war can attest. The nudibranch eats it's victim and keeps the remaining cniodocytes for it's own defense, isn't this a lot more fun than some goofy bird? There really is no limit to it, you know.
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And others nudibranchs that feed on algea are able to incorporate its chloroplasts and even perform photosynthesis for their own benefit!
Pretty cool beasties. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 08:41:41 [Permalink]
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Proceed whence? I find this thread baffling to the extreme.
I have pointed out that changes made in one organism from ingesting another is so common in nature that is is only worthy of mention as a trait of the organism(s) itself, and then only in passing. Thus far, there's been nothing remarkable here unless, that is, it can be shown that Goddidit.
Did you know that eating asparagus will make yout piss smell like asparagus? Well it will and it's all the same, freakin' thing.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 08:48:37 [Permalink]
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filthy:
Proceed whence? I find this thread baffling to the extreme. |
No shit.
At some point I should probably put on my administrators cap. The only reason I haven't is that lots of folks seem to want to play and there have been no real violations (unless you count being purposely obtuse and treating regular members as if they just fell off the back of a turnip truck as a violation.)
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:04:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by filthy
| filthy, it's true, the wrong kind of barracuda were sold in S,F, in the street market. Several people were taken to hospital and somebody died , it think. Wonder what fugu fish eat ? |
If by "fugu" you mean that species of puffer that is such a Japanese delicacy (that I am stupid enough to want to try), they eat corals. Coral toxins are what make the parrot fish & others contaminate the species that prey upon them. The fish themselves are resistant to these toxins, but we are not. It is my understanding that the preparation of those puffers is left only to the master chefs because a mistake could put the diner to great inconvenience & distress.
These relationships are fascinating. For example: species of nudibranchs (sea slugs) feed upon anemones and jellyfish, which, themselves predators, feed and defend themselves using highly toxic stinging calls called cniodocytes. These cniodocytes contain nematocysts which act like tiny, spring-loaded, venom-bearing harpoons and can be devastating, as anyone who's gotten tangled up with a Portuguese man o' war can attest. The nudibranch eats it's victim and keeps the remaining cniodocytes for it's own defense, isn't this a lot more fun than some goofy bird? There really is no limit to it, you know.
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And others nudibranchs that feed on algea are able to incorporate its chloroplasts and even perform photosynthesis for their own benefit!
Pretty cool beasties.
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Yes indeed, but now we're talking symbiosis. there are non-feeding species of flatworms that recieve nourishment solely from the wastes of symbiotic algae. The pink in flamingos is not hereditary nor are poison arrow frogs hatched with toxins. These must be aquired, and if they are not, it will affect the bird or frog not at all beyond that it will be neither pink nor toxic.
Another really excellent example is the Komodo monitor. This lizard has what could be considered the foulest mouth in existence. It is a seething Gehenna of highly virulent bacteria that the animal actually uses as a venom. Anything bitten by an adult Komodo has been rendered a virtual and rather nasty death sentence from septis. Very handy for subduing prey that the lizard can't take down at once. The dragons do not have these bacteria when young, but aquire them when feeding on a kill made by their elders. The Komodo you see at the zoo was hatched in captivity and is no more venomous than your pet iguana.
If you have a pet iguana, o' course. I've had several come through my rehab operation and have learned that, while not venomous, they can deal a very messy bite.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:11:42 [Permalink]
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thank you for your reply, Kil
What we proceed to is using this statement to show that various words used are leading to circular logic which is confusing to you, due to the power of your meme collections.
we can see that "trait", for instance , is one being mentioned often, and it can be seen as synonymous with characters and with phenotype. Selection is tied in with those words and is also misunderstood.
that's what I think, and will attempt to show.
Switching back and forth on these terms during definition of the terms, ( in addition to other faults in logic ), leads to a prevalent understanding which I think I can show to be less than helpful in learning about evolution.
so thanks for agreeing to proceed instead of refusing to accept the statement.
we end up at haircut, naturally.
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It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
| Edited by - MuhammedGoldstein on 06/11/2008 09:15:26 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:13:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
filthy:
Proceed whence? I find this thread baffling to the extreme. |
No shit.
At some point I should probably put on my administrators cap. The only reason I haven't is that lots of folks seem to want to play and there have been no real violations (unless you count being purposely obtuse and treating regular members as if they just fell off the back of a turnip truck as a violation.)
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Nah. We get that turnip truck stuff all the time. It doesn't bother me if you can live with it.
But I'm beginning to find it a pretty good place to elaborate on what could be quite an interesting topic. All you have to do is stop being led along.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:17:37 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Kil
filthy:
Proceed whence? I find this thread baffling to the extreme. |
No shit.
At some point I should probably put on my administrators cap. The only reason I haven't is that lots of folks seem to want to play and there have been no real violations (unless you count being purposely obtuse and treating regular members as if they just fell off the back of a turnip truck as a violation.)
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Nah. We get that turnip truck stuff all the time. It doesn't bother me if you can live with it.
But I'm beginning to find it a pretty good place to elaborate on what could be quite an interesting topic. All you have to do is stop being led along.
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refusing to be led, without sufficient reason, might not look so good, if one is pursuing the topic. |
It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:46:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
What we proceed to is using this statement to show that various words used are leading to circular logic which is confusing to you, due to the power of your meme collections. |
I don't think anyone is confused by anything. Except what your point is, of course.
| we end up at haircut, naturally. |
Well, we shall see... |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 09:55:11 [Permalink]
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we can see that "trait", for instance , is one being mentioned often, and it can be seen as synonymous with characters and with phenotype. Selection is tied in with those words and is also misunderstood.
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Not with phenotype actually.
It does include phenotypic traits but it is wider and include other characteristics also.
And, while I knew about the Komodo's bite being toxic, I thought it was due to some venom. I didn't know it was due to symbiotic bacteria.
Oh; all these years I wasted brushing my teeth! I could be a super-hero by now!
Beware evil-doers! Here comes... Captain Hillbillie!
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 06/11/2008 09:57:21 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 10:04:59 [Permalink]
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MG said:
we can see that "trait", for instance , is one being mentioned often, and it can be seen as synonymous with characters and with phenotype. Selection is tied in with those words and is also misunderstood.
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Confused only by you.
"Trait" is not synonymous with "phenotype" unless "tire" is also synonymous with "car" or "fingernails" is synonymous with "human". Get yourself a biology 101 textbook, maybe it will help you with these very basic concepts that you obviously don't understand. Also, you should consider a dictionary so you can stop confusing word definitions for words that are clearly not synonyms.
You are out of your depth here, and its obvious that you have no intention of engaging anyone here in an actual discussion.
You have been given ample opportunity (18+ pages) to make a point about something, yet you haven't made a single cogent (or even lucid) point about anything.
So stop being a retard (if you can) and get to your point, prove you aren't a troll, and engage in a real discussion. (my bet is that you won't)
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 10:17:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
I don't see why you can't say that my statement is correct. |
More neuroticism.| as to saying it, Seems that you three are avoiding it like the devil. |
I already said it.
You also wrote:| we can see that "trait", for instance , is one being mentioned often, and it can be seen as synonymous with characters and with phenotype. |
"A trait" is synonymous (or nearly so) with "a characteristic," and the collection of observable characteristics comprises an organism's "phenotype." Where is the problem? Who, specifically, is using "trait" as a synonym for "phenotype?"
For the fourth or fifth time, what is your point in all of this? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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MuhammedGoldstein
BANNED
201 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 10:19:11 [Permalink]
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Let's see if Berkeley responds, so that I don't take up too much more of your time.
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It does mention phenotype, just without using the word "phenotype."... DAVEW |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 10:27:16 [Permalink]
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I'd be suprised if Berkeley responds to you. You don't even grasp the basic concepts well enough to ask meaningful questions about them, and I'm sure whatever question you sent them was at least as incoherent as the majority of your posts here.
Go to your local library and read a biology textbook published within the last 5 or 10 years. This will help you with the basics you need to engage in a casual discussion about phenotype.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 10:38:47 [Permalink]
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Filth.....
Thanks! Let's hope our Kosher Dervish has a sense of humor capable of moderating his zealotry! |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2008 : 11:17:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by MuhammedGoldstein
Let's see if Berkeley responds, so that I don't take up too much more of your time. |
I'm sure I'm going to regret this, but what, exactly, did you ask them? |
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If I get a haircut 2
