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no1nose
BANNED
50 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:24:11 [Permalink]
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| Wow. You're kind of a jerk. Obviously quantum level = the sub-atomic level, where sub-atomic particles cannot be measured in terms of its exact position in space at a given time |
This is a shot in the dark that misses the target. Even use of the term "quantum level" is misplaced. Here is its proper context:
Quantum levels are fixed levels with a logarithmic, descending quantum pattern in the visible spectrum of light that can be observed through a spectrometer while looking at intense flows of electricity through the various halides on the periodic table in a vacuum tube. They also have some use in chemistry when dealing with the movement of electrons to different orbital levels around the atom and the energy levels involved in such action.
Please no more lectures
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:43:13 [Permalink]
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Thank you wikipedia.
Copy pasting definitions you don't understand doesn't actually fool anyone when you just failed basic reading comprehension.
Quantum level in this context was to mean at the quantic level of size; at the quantic scale.
The confusion could have been avoided due to my use of the term atomic level and molecular level... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 12:45:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by no1nose
| Wow. You're kind of a jerk. Obviously quantum level = the sub-atomic level, where sub-atomic particles cannot be measured in terms of its exact position in space at a given time |
This is a shot in the dark that misses the target. Even use of the term "quantum level" is misplaced. Here is its proper context:
Quantum levels are fixed levels with a logarithmic, descending quantum pattern in the visible spectrum of light that can be observed through a spectrometer while looking at intense flows of electricity through the various halides on the periodic table in a vacuum tube. They also have some use in chemistry when dealing with the movement of electrons to different orbital levels around the atom and the energy levels involved in such action.
Please no more lectures |
Ugh. A lazy cut-and-paste from Wikipedia. Obviously, when Raymond Laflamme says here| The problem now ... is that in classical physics, and in classical computing, a bit, a piece of information, can only occupy one position at a time. But ... the laws of physics change at the quantum level. In quantum mechanics, they can exist in two places at once. |
He's using the same definition I stated before.
And none of this should destract us from the fact that you continue to dodge every request to back up your myriad assertions. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 06/17/2008 : 13:47:20 [Permalink]
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Well, I see we're off on yet another red herring, this one quantum.
But in a paragraph, n1n and I are no the same page. The fruits of evolution, those organisms that survive the toughness test, are invaribly beautiful. Did you ever see a rattlesnake in the field, a big, healthy diamondback? Magnificent!
Even such species as Yersina pestis have a certain beauty in the efficency of their brief life cycle, and gastro-intestional nemotodes, not to mention Lymphatic filaria, as well. Extraordinary!
But the screw worm in that scrotum is that it matters not at all. Evolution is not concerned with appearences beyond the survival value of the design for the existing conditions, and that, blindly.
But then again:
"All things dull and ugly,
All creatures short and squat,
All things rude and nasty,
The Lord God made the lot.
Each little snake that poisons,
Each little wasp that stings,
He made their brutish venom.
He made their horrid wings.
All things sick and cancerous,
All evil great and small,
All things foul and dangerous,
The Lord God made them all.
Each nasty little hornet,
Each beastly little squid--
Who made the spikey urchin?
Who made the sharks? He did!
All things scabbed and ulcerous,
All pox both great and small,
Putrid, foul and gangrenous,
The Lord God made them all."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 13:59:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by no1nose
Please no more lectures |
O! the hypocrisy!
Luckily, we now know that Wikipedia is an acceptable source for you, no1nose. That'll make everything easier. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 14:15:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Well, I see we're off on yet another red herring, this one quantum.
But in a paragraph, n1n and I are no the same page. The fruits of evolution, those organisms that survive the toughness test, are invaribly beautiful. Did you ever see a rattlesnake in the field, a big, healthy diamondback? Magnificent!
Even such species as Yersina pestis have a certain beauty in the efficency of their brief life cycle, and gastro-intestional nemotodes, not to mention Lymphatic filaria, as well. Extraordinary!
But the screw worm in that scrotum is that it matters not at all. Evolution is not concerned with appearences beyond the survival value of the design for the existing conditions, and that, blindly.
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In fact; as a microbiologist, I'd rather agree with you (among the enterics; Salmonella typhi is my personal favourite).
There is often beauty in the streamlined efficiency of many pathogens.
But that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and certainly do not exist as a measurable and objective variable. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26031 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 14:23:33 [Permalink]
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Of course, the problem is that no1nose can't defend his assertions because he just blew them out of his ass. But he needs to at least try.
I suggest not biting on his attempts to divert attention away from his original claims. Yes, he will make more silly claims that can be added to the list, but really, he needs to address those claims that he has already made.
no1nose, this will be the last unofficial warning you get from me. And really, I have given you a lot of room to make things right. Too much room perhaps. But this is it. The next time I address the claim issue with you it will be official, and the door will no doubt be close behind.
On a more personal note, no1nose, what the hell are you thinking? Do you not realize that people who often frequent this site are very well versed in science and math? Did you actually think that your proclamations, mistakes and all, would impress anyone here? There is only one way to make a case stick with science minded people. You must provide evidence to back it up. The very fact that you don't get that is why, at least in part, your arguments must fail. Close-mindedness has nothing to do with your failure so far. We would be more than happy to look at your evidence. If you supply none, you loose. It's as simple as that…
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 15:23:23 [Permalink]
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As for the spamming part of no1nose's activities, look here
and here and of course, here.
He was given plenty of math on the EVC forum, but continued to assert that evolution is math free. And of course, he didn't respond to the posts that showed him specific examples of some of the math.
So, among all of the things we have pointed out, no1nose's is also a bold faced liar.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 15:30:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by no1nose
| Evolution isn't a theory of life, it's a theory of biodiversity. But beyond that, can you name another one? |
Oh please!!
Besides being a math free zone |
You have been shown otherwise. You are a liar.
| the Theory of Evolution is also an “observer” free. |
What does that even mean.
| Relativity is referenced to an “observer”. |
So? That one theory is referenced to an observer does not mean all have to be.
| Changes in time and mass and velocity are “observed” by an observer. |
But that has nothing to do with relativity. Relativity takes the observer as the reference point, which is something different than that quantities are observed.
| In quantum physics the state of a system remains indeterminate until it is “observed”. |
Which differs from the way the observer is part of relativity. Your point, other than that you don't know what you're talking about?
| In atomic systems if the observer looks for a wave a wave is observed, if a particle is “looked” for then a particle and not a wave is observed. Strange but true as they say. |
That is not atomic theory, that is quantum theory.
| However the Theory of Evolution has no provision for the role of an observer even though the changes that take place are at the atomic level where quantum realities should dominate. |
Neither has computer science. So?
| When one surveys the natural world and the changes that do occur one must notice the trend toward beauty. |
Substantiate or retract.
| If changes in the natural world were completely random then the world around us would have all the beauty of a junk yard. |
Substantiate or retract. Also, the theory of evolution is not a theory of complete randomness, so you once again show that you have no idea what you are talking about.
| Beauty in the natural world implies that these changes are driven by an observer. The lack of a role for an observer is yet one more piece of evidence against the Theory of Evolution as a valid description of the natural world. |
This isn't even wrong. It's complete insanity rambling here. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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no1nose
BANNED
50 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 15:39:41 [Permalink]
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Fine. Fine But I'm not impressed because you haven't addressed the basic issue of the absence of a functional observer in the Theory of Evolution. I don't think you will because you can't and not because its not a vaild issue. You just don't know where to turn for answers and so its personal attack instead - most of which is just high school type stuff. You are coming across as a bunch of bullies who are ganging up on one person who has rasied some questionable stuff to the 2000 or so people who have visited this thread. Is that really you? As you may have noticed I am just one person- and true I do question evolution. What is the crime in that?
I try not to blur the distinction between what goes on in one's mind and what is happening in the world around us. In general I am saying that there is not a one to one correspondence between the two. The idea that "evolution" exists in our minds and there is some correspondence between this idea and the world of living things is certianly true. But not to the extent that you demand.
If you want, go ahead and be a “Darwinian Zealots” and hang in there bad boys. I'm not here to change you but in the end you will get what you deserve.
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 16:04:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by no1nose
Fine. Fine But I'm not impressed because you haven't addressed the basic issue of the absence of a functional observer in the Theory of Evolution. I don't think you will because you can't and not because its not a vaild issue. |
Jesus. You've done nothing to show why a "functional observer" is needed for the ToE to be true. You haven't even bothered to define what that means in practical terms.
Moreover, you've been proven wrong on other assertions and haven't bothered to address any.
There's no crime in questioning evolution. The crime is ignoring the evidence, even when it's shown to you, and to assert that the ToE is still in doubt. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 16:06:28 [Permalink]
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no1nose said:
| If you want, go ahead and be a “Darwinian Zealots” and hang in there bad boys. I'm not here to change you but in the end you will get what you deserve. |
Poor baby. Go cry to mommy, maybe she will have a little more tolerance for your stupidity. Only a mother could.
You,ve been proven a liar a dozen times in this thread. You've engaged in two dozen different logical fallacies. You've ignored every request for you to back up your dozen or so assertions...
And now you are threatening us?
Well, nice knowin ya (not really). I predict that your remaining time here is very short. Maybe someday you will realize that you are an insufferable asshat, but I doubt it.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13481 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 16:08:12 [Permalink]
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Hey no1nose, where will your lying get you? Will it get you what you deserve?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2008 : 16:28:57 [Permalink]
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| I'm not here to change you but in the end you will get what you deserve. |
Sorry, what?
Or are you of the 'agree with me or you are going to hell' brand of Christianity? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Darwin’s debt to Christianity
Topic Locked
