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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2008 : 12:52:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Dave W.
There's more over at The Jewish Journal, where I've left a comment.
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Dave, your comments are spot on...
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Agree. Well done!
I didn't read all of the comments -- I'm getting a little burned-out with that -- but this one caught my eye whilst looking for Dave's: It beats me why anyone should want to defend a remnant of medieval superstition from the mockery which, on the merits, it certainly deserves. It may be objected that hordes of people participate in this silliness, which, ostensibly, justifies some kind of official guarantee that it will not be derided. By the same logic, however, the fact that millions of Moslems believe that the Koranic dogma is beyond criticism justifies a death sentence against Salman Rushdie and the actual murder of Theo van Gogh.
I'm afraid that Catholics will have to take their lumps like anyone else, recognizing that what makes Bill Donahue squirm has just as much constitutional protection as his own fervor.
Comment by Fossil on 7/11/08 at 7:31 am |
One wonders if there's not just a touch of envy amongst the cracker-squallers for the Islamic barbarians who actually get to carry out their threats without fear of repercussion. Indeed, Mohammed Bouyeri's only mistake was in killing Theo van Gogh in the Netherlands rather than an Islamic nation such as, say, Iran. Or Saudi Arabia. Indeed, the governments of those two dark-age, hell-holes would've done it for him.
As for the cracker/painting comparison -- there is none. One is art of the finest effort and the other is just a stupid cracker bouyed up by one of the world's more pathetic superstitions. That the Mona Lisa has been copied a million times is nothing more than tribute to the original artist. That the cracker, oh all right: "wafer" has been reproduced billions of times is meaningless because it is as disposable as a second-hand condom and replaced in a week by another as anonomous as it's predecessor. Only the mumbo-jumbo remains constant.
But fear not, fear not; when we finally get the Christian theocratcy that we so desperatly yearn for, and after the Catholic/Protestant disagreements are worked out, one way or another, we will be able to legally lay a Jesus-jihad on anyone who disagrees with that pathetic superstition, just like the Muslims in the Mid-East.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 15:29:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Dave W.
There's more over at The Jewish Journal, where I've left a comment. |
Dave, your comments are spot on... |
Agree. Well done! |
Thanks, guys. That Ben Plonie character is a gift that keeps on giving. "Atheism is an unscientific belief system."  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 18:01:24 [Permalink]
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PZ has collected a couple of new death threats and I don't believe that this pair is going to get off scott free. Here they are: Paul,
what I would like to know is how did you even
get a job at a collage.
when you are obviously a moron.
How would you feel if nice folks starting ranting against
Fags, and atheist like yourself.
well sir, you don't get to blaspheme and walk away from this.
You have two choices my fucked up friend, first you can quit your job for the good of the
children. Or you can get your brains beat in.
I give you till the first of the month, get that resignation in cunt
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And: Professor Myers
You are a scumbag, may your insides rot, may your neck be snapped by an iron boot against a curb, I hope
for a world without liberals, we can start with you
Making the world a better place one message at a time. Check out the i'm Talkathon. |
The comments here are quite interesting. It appears that some very competent people are on the track of this pair of shitheads, one of whom evidently used a company computer. There is some question as to whether or not the machine's actual user did it or it was "borrowed" by someone else. Either way, the clown is in for a nasty suprise. Corporations don't like having threats communicated from their home base. It's very bad for business.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 19:03:49 [Permalink]
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Comment #62 is exactly the sort of thing that should be bouncing all over the intertubes. Brandon, you've got the sort of moral fiber that's been lacking in every other Catholic whom I've seen address this issue (can't say I've read everything, but hey). Bravo, sir!
(Crossposted over there.) |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 22:00:26 [Permalink]
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| I've invited Ben Plonie over to discuss Intelligent Design. He seems to believe that "intervention" was necessary. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 23:12:56 [Permalink]
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In the interest of demonstrating to newcomers that Pharyngula is all about, PZ Myers listed several old blog postings, including this one: A godless ramble against the ditherings of theologians.
In it, the commentator Sastra left this H.L. Mencken quote at #30, and it just seemed so very appropriate considering the current brouhaha:
| "The pedant and the priest have always been the most expert of logicians -- and the most diligent disseminators of nonsense and worse. The liberation of the human mind has never been furthered by dunderheads; it has been furthered by gay fellows who heaved dead cats into sanctuaries and then went roistering down the highways of the world, proving to all men that doubt, after all, was safe -- that the god in the sanctuary was finite in his power and hence a fraud. One horse-laugh is worth ten thousand syllogisms. It is not only more effective; it is also vastly more intelligent." |
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 05:01:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
But fear not, fear not; when we finally get the Christian theocratcy that we so desperatly yearn for, and after the Catholic/Protestant disagreements are worked out, one way or another, we will be able to legally lay a Jesus-jihad on anyone who disagrees with that pathetic superstition, just like the Muslims in the Mid-East.
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Probably not the first that this has occurred to, but when I read Christian theocracy in filthy's post, I saw it as Christian theocrazy
edited to add: Definitely not the first. Google search |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
| Edited by - moakley on 07/14/2008 19:45:04 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 05:23:24 [Permalink]
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I sent mkroll this personal e-mail:
You wrote to PZ Meyers:
>well sir, you don't get to blaspheme and walk away from this.
>You have two choices my fucked up friend, first you can quit
>your job for the good of the children. Or you can get your
>brains beat in.
>
>I give you till the first of the month, get that resignation in cunt
Sir, making personal threats is very un-Christian.
Do you really think God will grant you forgiveness
for such acts, when you obviously do not regret making
them?
Matt 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall
be called children of God."
Matt 5:44-45 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless
them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray
for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and
sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
And finally a word for consideration:
Matt 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your
heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 06:37:06 [Permalink]
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Dammit, Mab. First off, it's not a "sir" but a "ma'am," as "mkroll" is "Melanie Kroll."
Secondly, you've just needlessly involved yourself with what could possibly result in an investigation by the FBI, since death threats are a Federal crime here.
The lesson everyone should learn from that Pharyngula thread is that it's important to read all the comments before taking action, especially if there are over 700 comments! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 06:46:29 [Permalink]
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I think Mab will be safe from any FBI investigation. His email was innocuous.
Besides, its not as if they aren't already reading all the email sent by people who post here. Bunch of dirty liberal terrorists...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 06:53:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I sent mkroll this personal e-mail:
You wrote to PZ Meyers:
>well sir, you don't get to blaspheme and walk away from this.
>You have two choices my fucked up friend, first you can quit
>your job for the good of the children. Or you can get your
>brains beat in.
>
>I give you till the first of the month, get that resignation in cunt
Sir, making personal threats is very un-Christian.
Do you really think God will grant you forgiveness
for such acts, when you obviously do not regret making
them?
Matt 5:9 "Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall
be called children of God."
Matt 5:44-45 "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless
them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray
for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and
sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust."
And finally a word for consideration:
Matt 6:14-15 "For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your
heavenly Father will also forgive you:
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."
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Sir/Madam & Federal crimes aside, I liked your email. If she reads it, I'd bet it will affect her deeply. Fervent believers like that can't help but be affected by the words of their god. Why didn't you throw out a 'turn the other cheek' reference?. That's very applicable here. For reference:
In the Sermon on the Mount in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus says:
You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.' But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you.
—Matthew 5:38-42, NIV
A parallel version is offered in the Sermon on the Plain in the Gospel of Luke:
But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.
—Luke 6:27-31. NIV
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Good stuff for the haters! |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 07/14/2008 06:57:45 |
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 06:55:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Besides, its not as if they aren't already reading all the email sent by people who post here. Bunch of dirty liberal terrorists...
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<Gulp>  They are? |
-Chaloobi
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| Edited by - chaloobi on 07/14/2008 06:55:46 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 07:09:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Dammit, Mab. First off, it's not a "sir" but a "ma'am," as "mkroll" is "Melanie Kroll."
Secondly, you've just needlessly involved yourself with what could possibly result in an investigation by the FBI, since death threats are a Federal crime here.
The lesson everyone should learn from that Pharyngula thread is that it's important to read all the comments before taking action, especially if there are over 700 comments!
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You're right, as always. I'm filing this under "Things to remember for next time". I need to become less rash.
Edited to add:
Merriam-Webster tells me that Sir means
1a: a man entitled to be addressed as sir...
2a: used as a usually respectful form of address. b: capitalized —used as a conventional form of address in the salutation of a letter
But definition 2a at Webster doesn't make any mention of gender designation.
There was an occasion in London where I and my girlfriend were addressed as "Sirs", which lead me to the (faulty?) conclusion that Sir isn't strictly gender specific.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 07/14/2008 07:28:21 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 07:19:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chaloobi
Why didn't you throw out a 'turn the other cheek' reference?. That's very applicable here. |
I thought it would be too obvious. Everyone knows that line, and it's been used to death, so it has pretty much lost its meaning. Besides, consider that she wasn't the subject of PZ Meyer's alleged attack, so I'd question the applicability. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 07:25:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Say that I had a card sent to me by my Grandma on my 12th birthday which is dear to me. Would it be fair, after a house fire, to demand that my insurance company pay $1,000,000 just for the card, because of the memories it held? |
No, but imagine a hypothetical situation where you have invited someone to your home. You show that someone the card and tell them how precious it is to you. You would probably be quite peeved if that someone stole the card.
| Is it ever fair for a minority to try to impose their values on objects on others, especially when those others cannot possibly get the same value? |
The guy took it from them on their own grounds. Don't expect the catholics to accept the guy's value for it.
| I'm pretty sure that we can all agree that car theft or defacement of tombstones is offensive, but I think we can all agree that they don't rise to a level of offense where terrorism is an appropriate response. |
I think the cracker in question is a cracker. Stealing a cracker is hardly an offense at all, legally speaking. But why would anyone expect to catholics in question to just shrug their shoulders and say: "Oh well, it WAS just a cracker. Who cares".
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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A Christian (Catholic) sense of proportion...
