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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/13/2008 : 07:11:20
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Is there no limit the the perfidity of the Bush administration? It would seem not. Culture of Corruption — Presidential Library Edition
Posted July 13th, 2008 at 9:30 am
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Fundraising for a presidential library has always been controversial, in part because, unlike contributions to U.S. political campaigns, donations to libraries can come from foreign sources, and are easier to conceal.
But this kind of corruption is striking, even by the Bush administration's standards.
The Sunday Times reports Stephen Payne, a Bush pioneer and a political appointee to the Homeland Security Advisory Council, was caught on tape offering access to key members of the Bush administration inner circle in exchange for “six-figure donations to the private library being set up to commemorate Bush's presidency.”
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 22:21:12 [Permalink]
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Is this corruption?
If you drop a lot of money on any organization, you get face time with the people in charge. The more money you drop, the more they will bend over to give you access. Consider this quote from these very forums just a short time ago:
"...I contribute heavily to the DNC. One of the perks that a regular substantial supporter gets is communication access to higher levels of the Party structure."
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10024#146894
Contributors get perks. The larger the contribution, the larger the perks. Is the DNC corrupt? Is bnqbuck corrupt? |
| Edited by - Mycroft on 07/13/2008 22:23:55 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 07/13/2008 : 23:43:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Is this corruption?
If you drop a lot of money on any organization, you get face time with the people in charge. The more money you drop, the more they will bend over to give you access. Consider this quote from these very forums just a short time ago:
"...I contribute heavily to the DNC. One of the perks that a regular substantial supporter gets is communication access to higher levels of the Party structure."
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10024#146894
Contributors get perks. The larger the contribution, the larger the perks. Is the DNC corrupt? Is bnqbuck corrupt?
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Uh, yes, that's corruption, if the word is to have any practical meaning at all. Not that Bush and his cronies are the first to do this sort of thing. But they've perfected it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2008 : 02:07:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Mycroft
Is this corruption?
If you drop a lot of money on any organization, you get face time with the people in charge. The more money you drop, the more they will bend over to give you access. Consider this quote from these very forums just a short time ago:
"...I contribute heavily to the DNC. One of the perks that a regular substantial supporter gets is communication access to higher levels of the Party structure."
http://www.skepticfriends.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=10024#146894
Contributors get perks. The larger the contribution, the larger the perks. Is the DNC corrupt? Is bnqbuck corrupt?
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In a word, yes. But it's the sort of corruption that slimed it's way into our political discourse and become lodged there like an inoperable tumor at a very early period of out countrie's history. Thus, it has become pretty much a matter of degree -- a fact I find disgusting. However, I rather doubt that bnqbuck is lobbying for the deregulation of the banking or energy industries, or trying to steal away veterans benefits.
I find it slightly amazing, and a little nauseating, that anyone would fork over "a couple hundred thousand" for the "library" just to meet the listed incompetents. But perhaps I shouldn't; they and their ilk have become the mainstay of the Republican Party. Sad, really.
Y'know, I used to like to think of myself as a pretty fair minded Independent. I've voted for Republicans more than just a few times over the decades, but I doubt if I ever will again. Not so fair-minded anymore, eh? Thank Reagan/Bush and especally the Bush whelp for it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/14/2008 02:11:28 |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 00:09:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
In a word, yes. But it's the sort of corruption that slimed it's way into our political discourse and become lodged there like an inoperable tumor at a very early period of out countrie's history. Thus, it has become pretty much a matter of degree -- a fact I find disgusting. However, I rather doubt that bnqbuck is lobbying for the deregulation of the banking or energy industries, or trying to steal away veterans benefits. |
The thing about the veterans benefits is shameful, but it's off-topic. Nobody is making huge donations to the Presidential library for the purpose of lobbying Bush to steal veterans benefits, least of all the former President of Kyrgyzstan.
Originally posted by filthy
I find it slightly amazing, and a little nauseating, that anyone would fork over "a couple hundred thousand" for the "library" just to meet the listed incompetents. But perhaps I shouldn't; they and their ilk have become the mainstay of the Republican Party. Sad, really. |
One would suppose the former President of Kyrgyzstan is grasping at straws. Nobody wants him back in power, not even Bush, but he's still in denial.
Originally posted by filthy
Y'know, I used to like to think of myself as a pretty fair minded Independent. I've voted for Republicans more than just a few times over the decades, but I doubt if I ever will again. Not so fair-minded anymore, eh? Thank Reagan/Bush and especally the Bush whelp for it.
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I don't think GWB represents the Republican party any more than Dennis Kucinich represents the Democratic party. Both parties really represent a pretty broad spectrum of beliefs. |
| Edited by - Mycroft on 07/22/2008 00:12:04 |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 06:35:23 [Permalink]
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What does the president of Kyrgyzstan, past or current, have to do with anything? If he's donated, he's one amongst the crowd.
People buy face-time with every expectation of getting something for it, and it would not at all surprise me at all if some of the donaters were lobbying for privatization of the VA. They're still trying to do it to SS. It works, so, hey, they just gotta fix it -- to their own, corporate benefit, of course. It's all about the "bottom line," is that not so?
As for representatives of the parties, the Republicans, as a party, are going to have to show me a hell of a lot more than they have over the last couple of decades before I'll give them any of them any consideration at all.
What a pity that there is no viable, third party.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2008 : 20:32:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
What does the president of Kyrgyzstan, past or current, have to do with anything? If he's donated, he's one amongst the crowd. |
The article you linked to in the OP was Stephen Payne, a Bush appointee, giving this advice to the former President of Kyrgyzstan.
Originally posted by filthy
People buy face-time with every expectation of getting something for it, and it would not at all surprise me at all if some of the donaters were lobbying for privatization of the VA. They're still trying to do it to SS. It works, so, hey, they just gotta fix it -- to their own, corporate benefit, of course. It's all about the "bottom line," is that not so? |
Well, you buy the face time with the possibility of being able to persuade the person you get face time with. The reality is the former President of Kyrgyzstan isn't going to get his country back no matter how much money he dumps into the Presidential library. He can spend six figures for the privilege of having Condi Rice spend ten minutes explaining to him how the bloodless coup that ousted him from power is probably the best thing to happen to Kyrgyzstan in many decades.
| Originally posted by filthyAs for representatives of the parties, the Republicans, as a party, are going to have to show me a hell of a lot more than they have over the last couple of decades before I'll give them any of them any consideration at all. |
A lot of people agree with you. Of course, a lot of people feel the same way about the Democrats too.
Originally posted by filthy
What a pity that there is no viable, third party.
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I agree, though probably not in the way you mean. I'd like to see a centrist party, something between the Democrats and Republicans. Something that rejects both the religious extremists from the right and the greenie/commie radicals on the left, and just stands for getting work done on the issues where most of us agree on. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2008 : 08:20:02 [Permalink]
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Possibility as history has shown us, is correct. But history has also shown that 'Possibility' often evolves into 'Probability' in direct proportion to the amount of face time purchased. This administration being what it is, the former President of Kyrgyzstan might well get his country back. If he has the bread.
| I agree, though probably not in the way you mean. I'd like to see a centrist party, something between the Democrats and Republicans. Something that rejects both the religious extremists from the right and the greenie/commie radicals on the left, and just stands for getting work done on the issues where most of us agree on. |
We pretty much have an accord, although, as something of a greenie/commie/radical, I'd like one somewhat more to the left than what is considered centrist today.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2008 : 09:56:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Possibility as history has shown us, is correct. But history has also shown that 'Possibility' often evolves into 'Probability' in direct proportion to the amount of face time purchased. This administration being what it is, the former President of Kyrgyzstan might well get his country back. If he has the bread.
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Well, that's speculation. You think it's a possibility, I don't. My opinion is that if this guy coughed up a billion dollars it wouldn't be enough. I suppose the only way to settle it would be to see what happens between now and January.
| Originally posted by filthyI agree, though probably not in the way you mean. I'd like to see a centrist party, something between the Democrats and Republicans. Something that rejects both the religious extremists from the right and the greenie/commie radicals on the left, and just stands for getting work done on the issues where most of us agree on. |
We pretty much have an accord, although, as something of a greenie/commie/radical, I'd like one somewhat more to the left than what is considered centrist today.
[/quote]
When my centrist party claims their share of the Democrats, what's left over will be more to your liking. :) |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/23/2008 : 12:35:07 [Permalink]
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| When my centrist party claims their share of the Democrats, what's left over will be more to your liking. :) |
Never forget: money talks and the more there is, the louder and more persuasive it gets.
But good luck with that centrist party. And if it should come to pass (it won't; the D&R have it cold-decked), I'll still be scrappin' for what I believe in, pro or con side of the issue, whichever as I see it.
Edit: I find myself reminded of the late Senator Barry Goldwatter, Lyndon Johnson's main opponent. In his day, he was considered an arch-conservative and he scared hell out of just about everybody. Today, he couldn't get nominated as a Republican for county commissioner, as he would be considered as much too liberal. Go figger, eh?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 07/23/2008 12:47:20 |
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Culture of Corruption — Presidential Library
