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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 13:29:44 [Permalink]
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Robb:
You have created your own God based on how you think God should act. My version of God is based on how the bible describes him. |
You're right. If I were to create a God, as I believe that you have done, mine would be a just and compassionate creator who would put peoples behavior far above any gratification she may derive from our worship of him. Mine would get that as the only God, jealousy would not be necessary. My God would not run the most exclusive country club in the universe and surround herself with lackeys and sycophants because my God would not need his ego constantly stroked. And on and on... In short, my God would not be the petty tyrant that you bow to and give thanks for...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2008 : 13:46:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Robb.....
I sense that you are reluctant to even respond to logical questioning of your theistic beliefs, such as those offered by Dude and Kil I am glad I made you laugh..... I agree, you do need to believe God exists to repent......
Thanks!..... |
Turning the other (facial) cheek is certainly Christian behavior, but it often denotes a lack of courage in one's convictions. And, both from your previous comments on SFN and your responses in this thread, I feel that you are uncertain of your convictions and a little shaky in your professed faith.
Because you really are not such a stupid fellow, and the unquenchable little ember of rationality that burns in your intellect constantly nags at you. |
You are always willing to give your psychoanalysis. How much do I owe you? I answered as best I can. You must repent to be saved. I must be misunderstanding the question if you do not see that as a satisfactory answer. Those responses you put up there are out of context as well. You do not mention the true reply:
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dude
That actually made me laugh out loud. |
I am glad I made you laugh.
| Your argument is still circular. You have to already know god exists (a fatal flaw in any plan from an omnipotent being, wouldn't you say? Surely such a being is capable of making its presence unquestionably known without influencing your free will, being omnipotent and all....) before you can know your god exists! |
I agree, you do need to believe God exists to repent.
| I kinda feel sorry for you. Really. |
Thanks!
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I answered every question he asked.
You ask:
What was the reason you wanted to be saved? The reason should be that you have realized that you have broken Gods holy law and are going to be eternally punished and rightly so. So you mean that the primary, most important, and possibly only reason for a person to become a Christian is a narcissic concern about ones own well-being after dying? If so, a Christian is thus defined as a paragon of egomaniacal self-concern, the most important thing in their life, AND THE ONLY REASON FOR BEING A CHRISTIAN, being an obsession with eternal self-preservation! |
If you had to jump from a plane 10,000 feet in the air, would you grab a parachute or not?
| It follows that an atheist who sacrifices his life to save others, goes straight to hell! Or atheists; or merely non-Christians who live exemplary lives of care, giving, and doing good deeds for their fellow man; will rot in hell for eternity despite living a life of care, concern and self-sacrificial help and support to humanity. |
Yes. Where you go wrong in your reasoning is that you assume that people are good. That flies on the face of what the Bible teaches.
| And God condemns those untold millions of "his chosen people" the religious Jews; condemns them to Hell because they do not accept Christ? Or Muslims or any other monotheists with virtually identical views to those of the Christian of one omnicient, omnipotent God, and worship Him fanatically, but who do not "accept" Jesus as their "Saviour"? |
Yes
| What an utterly preposterous view this is of a supposedly "loving" God! Is your faith deep and strong enough to adequately answer the skepticism about Chtistianity that these kinds of questions raise, Robb? |
I am trying to be consistant with what the Bible teaches. Yopu have your own definition of what Love is and are attributing it to God. You have an idea of God that is not biblical in my opinion.
| Or do doubts creep in? Doubts planted by Beelzebub or his alter-egos Mephistopheles, Lucifer, Abbadon, Satan, Belial, or any of hundreds of other imaginative apellations for a horned flying pink tooth fairy spaghetti monster obsessed with corrupting mankind and wanting to take you straight to hell and munch on your bones! |
If I say I have no doubts will you believe me? Probably not if you are honest with yourself.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 13:48:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Robb:
You have created your own God based on how you think God should act. My version of God is based on how the bible describes him. |
You're right. If I were to create a God, as I believe that you have done, mine would be a just and compassionate creator who would put peoples behavior far above any gratification she may derive from our worship of him. Mine would get that as the only God, jealousy would not be necessary. My God would not run the most exclusive country club in the universe and surround herself with lackeys and sycophants because my God would not need his ego constantly stroked. And on and on... In short, my God would not be the petty tyrant that you bow to and give thanks for...
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You and most people would create a God like this. One that you feel good with and does not ask you to change your behaviour. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 13:57:47 [Permalink]
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Robb:
You and most people would create a God like this. One that you feel good with and does not ask you to change your behaviour. |
Nonsense. Read it again. What I said is that my God would care much more about my behavior than my worship... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 14:56:48 [Permalink]
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Well, I tried to argue.
I try, that's all I can say. Some results are less useful than others.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 14:58:18 [Permalink]
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Robb, provide me some evidence that your bible is anoything other than stories written by bronze age desert nomads and fiction-propaganda drafted by those with a grudge against Rome.
Sure, this is a bit off the main topic, but it drives to the heart of the matter. What good reason is there to believe your "good book" is what you claim it to be?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 15:01:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
How can this be misinterpreted: "But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Lk 13:3 |
Clearly, since "perish" is meant spiritually (because we all die, believers and heathen alike), that calls into question the interpretation of all the words in the sentence. Plus, some sects require an act of contrition for repentance, and some require continual acts of contrition, while others only require that you repent "in your heart," once (in which case, a person's outward behavior may not change at all).You also wrote:| Look at the ten commandments and realize you have violated all of them. |
I certainly haven't murdered or adulterated. Besides, did Jesus fulfill the old law or not, Robb?
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Jesus says you have:
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. Mt :28
Do not murder, and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.' But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Mt 5:21-22 |
So Jesus knows that any woman I might look lustfully upon is already married? Huh.
And I'm an only child, I have no brothers to be angry with.
But what you're really telling me is that while the old laws may (or may not) have been fulfilled, Jesus imposed new, much more strict laws. Instead of prohibitions against adultery and murder, we now have prohibitions against lust and anger. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 08/11/2008 : 15:29:32 [Permalink]
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I'm gonna toss this in for no really good reason, but does it not seem a mite incongruous that gods, virtually all and the mightiest of them, past & present, were/are all too human? They loved, laughed, hated, got drunk and pissed, just like us.
I like the Greek Pantheon best. Those guys had a lot of fun, being human.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 18:12:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Repentence is essential, Jesus said without it no one is saved.
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That is contradicting to John 3:16 and Rome 10:9.
Those verses says you only need to believe in Jesus to be saved, repentence not required. Of course, they do not explicitly say repentence not required, but they say in no uncertain terms that belief in Jesus is enough.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 19:14:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Robb:
I agree, you do need to believe God exists to repent. |
And if you are a critical thinker, God will not lift a pinky to keep you out of hell, no matter what kind of life you have lead.
I wonder if there are shrinks in heaven, cause God surly has one epic personalty disorder...
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I think God's real problem is that she has humans handling her marketing here on earth. And for Christ's sake you know how fallible humans can be. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 20:05:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by Kil
Robb:
I agree, you do need to believe God exists to repent. |
And if you are a critical thinker, God will not lift a pinky to keep you out of hell, no matter what kind of life you have lead.
I wonder if there are shrinks in heaven, cause God surly has one epic personalty disorder...
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I think God's real problem is that she has humans handling her marketing here on earth. And for Christ's sake you know how fallible humans can be.
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You must have been reading The Shack. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 20:12:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dave W.
Every schism has occured because someone has said that someone else is reading the Bible wrong. |
How can this be misinterpreted: "But unless you repent, you too will all perish." Lk 13:3
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It's not so much that this verse is misinterpreted, rather it is less emphasized. The bible contains a good deal on what it takes to be saved. Which brings us back to Dave's point. The bible through its content provides a great deal of latitude for personal interpretation. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 08/11/2008 : 20:24:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
You must have been reading The Shack.
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Should I assume that you are talking about a Bed and Breakfast in Jugville, Michigan. And that you meant "staying at" instead of "reading". It's more likely that you are talking about The Shack by William Young which I am not at all familiar with. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 03:25:00 [Permalink]
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Well, if anyone wants, there's another site out there to test your skills on: Atheism is Dead.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/12/2008 : 04:28:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, if anyone wants, there's another site out there to test your skills on: Atheism is Dead.
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The guy's an idiot. Why should I have to "prove" anything to anyone? And the topics for which he demands "proof" have been covered endlessly, and fruitlessly, in here. For example, he want's "proof" that God doesn't exist. 
It's all a really dull scene.
But the fool brings up an interesting point: it seems that atheism has been getting more and more attention lately. Are we, in our less-than-burgeoning numbers, worrying the faithful? If so, why?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Debating religious types, good and bad arguments
