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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 13:37:29 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
(To Mabuse)
Hey, is it true that Swedes all have blond hair and blue eyes and all of the woman are foxes? Is it true that you spend half the year fucking your brains out because it's dark up there for many months and there is nothing else to do? Is it? |
Mazeltov, Kil!! Congratulations on your bar mitzvah and the event of robust testicular growth! I heartily concur with every word in your rebuff to Mr. Drabuse. This mass condemnation of Americans in general has gotten through to me, also, as you may have noticed!
God knowa we have enough fucking idiots in the body politic of this country, but we certainly aren't all neo-nazi neocon Republican Gestapanamo thugs! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2008 : 15:46:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Hey, is it true that Swedes all have blond hair and blue eyes and all of the woman are foxes? Is it true that you spend half the year fucking your brains out because it's dark up there for many months and there is nothing else to do? Is it? |
Hey, they've got it better than the Canadians, who all subsist on whale blubber and live in igloos, eh? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2008 : 17:07:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
It's so damn cold where you're sitting up there in Iceland, you're suffering from chilblains! I certainly don't wish any decent Scandinavian interrment in a hell-hole like Guantanamo. |
Neither do I, but it never the less happened. A Swedish citizen was detained for four years in that hell-hole without charges. Eventually he was released (without any restitution) after years of pressure from the Swedish government where the American government failed to provide any explanation or evidence. 
Still the American government had the gall to demand that the former detainee's movement be restricted once he got home. Still without any evidence to why he was regarded as a suspected terrorist.
| I appreciate your fair, decent, even-handed judgement of we Americans, however, particularly the 100+ million of us that loath and despise the Cheney/Bush jackboots even more than you execrate the American people. |
Bullshit!
You know I've acknowledged before that at least a quarter of the population that is allowed to vote showed in the last presidential election that they are reasonable people, so I do definitely recognise that there are individual differences between you. You on the other hand is trying to paint me as a bigot who think all Americans are scum. I do not.
I am however appalled by the lack of progress in human rights since the Democrats took over Congress.
The saying goes: You can't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.
I just figured that if it was more American eggs breaking, and not so many non-Americans, more of your fellow countrymen would stand up beside you and say enough is enough - time to scrap Guantanamo prison camp. Maybe then we'd see more change.
When Kerry lost the last election, I became a cynic and promised myself never to set a foot on American soil as long as there was a Republican in office. However, when I was invited to Dragon*Con by Derek of Skepticality, I had to reconsider because I do "separate American people from their (currently) idiotic leaders".
After all, I was invited to Derek's, not the White House. If that had been the case, I would have declined. (And I would have made a big stink about it)
| The time that I spent in Sweden, I found the Swedes to be largely fair, reasonable, sensible, kindly, generous people. I loved the country and it's people. |
I do too, that's why I can't imagine living anywhere else. That is also one of the reasons I changed my last name when I married: My former name was Finnish and not Swedish, as I'm a second generation immigrant to Sweden. The new name correctly reflects my cultural identity as fully Swedish.
What was your view of America and Americans when you visited us?
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First you have to understand that most of the people I encountered were visitors to Dragon*Con. They were mostly fair, reasonable, sensible, kindly, generous people.
While I don't have access to statistics, I do believe a majority of Role-playing Gamers and Science Fiction fans that are serious enough to travel across the country to attend Dragon*Con and wear costumes are fairly open-minded and social non-religious people.
Not a typical cross-section of Bush-voters. I can't say for sure of course, I didn't interview everone. I tried to avoid talking politics with people I met because I was set on having a good time. The few I did talk politics with hated Bush's guts though. So I don't recognise any of them as representative of an average American.
People who sponsored my trip there were members of SFN, Skepticality, and JREF. All of you, I know most to be atheists and agnostics: You all belong to the 10% segment of the population who are rational enough to recognise non-theistic evolution, and have high ethical standards. So you are not good representatives of an average or median American.
The median American barely bothered to vote, but when he (or she) did, he voted Bush.
The fact that I was delayed an extra three quarters of an hour at customs for an extended "interview" about my mandatory military service in the Swedish Air-force, weapons training, and current occupation, didn't bother me that much*1 other than my hip-pain. (This was before my hip surgery)
But when I moved about outside Dragon*Con, in Atlanta, I was somewhat disturbed by the harsh social climate and the segregation.
When I held the door open for an elderly African-American man to let him through, he just stood there and stared at me as if he was trying to figure out if I was from outer space, or if I was just waiting for the right opportunity to slam the door in his face.
We recieved more politeness and superlatives than we expected, but it felt less than sincere.
All-in-all, Dragon*Con was an awesome experience, and I'm planning on going back. But I wouldn't want to live in Atlanta for an extended period of time.
I liked Munich, Germany better. I spent a week there waiting for the total eclipse of the sun in 1999.
I'd probably feel more at home in a Democratic/liberal stronghold. Wherever that may be... In Sweden, the Democrats would be a right-wing party, and I vote left side of middle. 
* 1) In the light of the irrationally high fear of terrorists, the interview seemed prudent. They also know for purpose of law enforcement (I suppose...) that if presented with a gun, I'd know how to use it. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 17:34:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Mab. Have you looked at Bush's approval rating lately? Do you really believe that most or even a majority of Americans approve of Bush's disregard for human rights and the suspension of habeas corpus? Even our conservative supreme court ruled ruled against Bush on that issue.
I understand your frustrations, but you have to understand that we are frustrated too. |
Then, why doesn't more happen? The Republicans lost both houses. It's time to take action to bring the criminals to justice!
| That is what the numbers show. |
I dearly hope it holds until November! And that people realise that a vote for McCain is a vote for more of the same (I could be wrong but that's the impression I get from McCain).
| To tell you the truth, and while I won't deny that things have not been exactly peachy over here, you continue to paint Americans with such a broad brush that you have turned us into caricatures of what you think we are. It's easier to do that, I suppose, if you wish to make a point, but it's not necessarily accurate. |
You here at SFN are reasonable people (very few exceptions), I've never said otherwise. Had everyone been like you, America would have the government it needs, not the cluster-f mess it has today. Yes, my frustration expresses itself in my painting with a broader-than-necessary brush when it comes to politics.
As I wrote in previous post: American politics has made me a cynic. So sue me... I'm not seeing enough to restore hope. Yet.
| Hey, is it true that Swedes all have blond hair and blue eyes and all of the woman are foxes? |
Hell yes! 
| Is it true that you spend half the year fucking your brains out because it's dark up there for many months and there is nothing else to do? |
Don't I wish... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2008 : 17:46:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
I heartily concur with every word in your rebuff to Mr. Drabuse. This mass condemnation of Americans in general has gotten through to me, also, as you may have noticed!
God knowa we have enough fucking idiots in the body politic of this country, but we certainly aren't all neo-nazi neocon Republican Gestapanamo thugs!
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Zzzzzzzzzz...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 18:13:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Then, why doesn't more happen? The Republicans lost both houses. It's time to take action to bring the criminals to justice! |
Because having a simple majority isn't enough to impose whatever policy one wants. One needs over 60% to make that happen, and it won't be a sure thing even then.
The biggest problem is that even among people who vote, the majority here are not politically active. They don't write to their Congresspeople. They don't attend (much less host) rallies. They watch the evening news form an opinion and perhaps give voice to it at the neighborhood bar. Most of those who vote think that voting (and serving on a jury) is enough political activity to fulfill their civic duty.
The people who are politically active I would guesstimate at being less than 5% of the population, and many of them are not what you would call the rational, ethical sort.
If you really want a giggle, "Poll: Almost half of college students say they're politically active," where the term "politically active" means:Signing e-mail petitions and forwarding them to friends, wearing political T-shirts and wristbands for social and political causes, and buying or boycotting products because of companies' reputations... 
How many people are politically active in Sweden, Mab?
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 20:49:21 [Permalink]
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Mab said:
Then, why doesn't more happen? The Republicans lost both houses. It's time to take action to bring the criminals to justice!
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At this moment it would be a waste of time. The senate has a 51/49 split, and you need 60 to convict. Not to mention that Joe Traitorman would vote with the republicans, rendering teh senate a tie... and the Vice President gets to break ties in the senate.
The US is basically fucked until we can break the two-party domination of politics.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 20:58:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Mab said:
Then, why doesn't more happen? The Republicans lost both houses. It's time to take action to bring the criminals to justice!
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At this moment it would be a waste of time. The senate has a 51/49 split, and you need 60 to convict. Not to mention that Joe Traitorman would vote with the republicans, rendering teh senate a tie... and the Vice President gets to break ties in the senate.
The US is basically fucked until we can break the two-party domination of politics.
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Well, not necessarily. The Republicans stand to loose several seats in congress in November. It's expected. And if Obama wins it's moot anyhow because I do believe this whole gitmo thing was set up by executive order. I may be wrong but that, but the Democrats may have a controlling majority. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 22:54:39 [Permalink]
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The gutless useless piece of shit democrats who refuse to de-fund the Iraq war you mean?
The democratic candidate who wants to expand faith based initiatives and is afraid of nuclear power (because of the 'tard part of the base who'd flip out)?
You mean THOSE democrats?
Give me a fucking break. They will cling to every scrap of expanded executive power Bush has wrangled up. Gitmo is fucking here to stay, democrat or republican president. The difference on this one may be how the prisoners are processed, thats it. No torture, maybe a real day in court.
I'm not saying the dems are as bad, or worse, than the republicans at this point... they are an obvious imnprovement. Just not so big of one that I expect any real changes from them.
Seriously, they have the power right fucking now to end the deployment of our troops in Iraq. They have had it for two years. They refuse to use it because they can't figure out how to counter the "you don't support the troops" sound bites. It would cost them and they are not willing to put themselves at risk for what is right. So basically fuck them. I'll be voting for them, but only because I'd sooner be raped by a syphilitic bull than vote for a republican.
The two party system has placed control of our electoral process in the hands of two very small groups of people. Its complete bullshit, all you have to do is look at our election laws to see how fucked we truly are.
Run off elections must become standard practice when there are more than two candidates in a race. No exceptions. Campaign finance needs to be honestly overhauled to eliminate special interest 527s and their unlimited money. No exceptions. Allow the 527s to exist, but cap individual contributions at 25% of what you are allowed to give to a candidate. Slander/Libel laws need to protect political candidates to eliminate swiftboating.
...I'm sure I've ranted about this crap here before. Maybe time to write some more letters to local politicians.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 02:25:04 [Permalink]
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Dr.Mabuse.....
Your statement was:| I'd like to see more Americans in Guantanamo detention-like places, |
. If you had said .....more Republicans, or more non-voters, or more anybody that is not voting to oust the Bush neocons (like any of the stupid splinter voters for Nader, etc.); I would heartily agree with you. But your outrageous statement indicted all Americans. And that is just plain nonsense.
Mabuse, there are over 300 million people in this country, the third largest in the world. 73% of that population is of voting age or about 220 million potential voters. Of that 220M, 70% are repeatedly responding to current polls as being opposed to Bush's policies. That's about 153 million anti Bush potential voters. I said that there were at least 100 million people in the US that hated Bush, and I was not exaggerating!
In 2004, 59 Million, or about 36% of those eligible to vote, voted for Kerry. 62 million voted for Bush. If there was a referendum - yes or no - on Bush today, we could expect at least 130 million people to vote (121 million voted in 2004). If Gallup is anywhere close to right, 90 million would vote against Bush. I said at least 100 million hated Bush, and if 90 million actually voted against him in a hypothetical election today, my statement certainly would be validated.
So it is not bullshit. It accurately reflects the anti-Bush sentiment in the US today. However, it does not necessarily mean that 70% of the electorate will vote against McCain. Only if the frequently stupid Democratic party succeeds in portraying a McCain presidency as a third term for Bush policies, could we expect to get anything close to a 70% Democratic majority. I'm afraid that's not gonna happen - Hillary has been quite a spoiler, and as Russia sounds more and more bellicose, quite a few tit-mouse voters will buy the McCain militaristic bluster! I think this election is going to be close.
And it's not going to be decided on issues like Guantanamo, or even Iraq! The state of the US economy, and the threat of Russian expansionism a la the old Soviet Union are going to be much bigger factors in American voters minds than human rights issues, or even the endless murdering of American soldiers and Iraqi civilians that is the idiotic Iraq war.
Americans are enormously concerned about the state of the economy, about the price of gas that is seriously affecting many American's life-styles, and - fortunately - they are indeed sick and tired of foreign involvement and the utter failures of the Bush administration in causing or failing to ameliorate any of these situations.
Unfortunately, there is the unbelievably stupid religious factor that will affect the Obama-McCain choice also. There are many signs that this fool factor will not be as large in this race as in the past. I would cheer alongside of you to see many of these blithering idiots in metal cages so as to experience some of the consequences of Bush's "Christianity"!
I am a Democrat not because of any inherent superiority of the Democratic party to the Republicans - give Democrats eight years of Executive and Legislative power and you will start to see political corruption just as bad as the neocons - just different! I am a Democrat today because:
1. Either a Democrat or a Republican will win in November. There is no other possibility.
2. Bush has been the worst president in American history.
3. The Republicans have ruled the worst Congress we have ever had for six years, and currently (the past two years) are rendering, together with the Bush veto, the one-seat Democratic edge in Congress meaningless and virtually impotent.
THERE HAS TO BE A CHANGE, or this country is really going to become as bad as you see it to be right now. In eight years, hopefully we can look to the possibility of starting to test a three-party system, at least in the presidential elections. I'm not going to hold my breath, I'm not good at it at my age!
But at least a third of our enormously diverse population is anti most of the same things that you and I are anti. That's more than ten times the population of your entire little California-sized country! So if every single Swede in Sweden felt exactly as you do, there would be ten times as many Americans that felt the same way!
Think on that the next time you issue a blanket indictment of all Americans!
DISCLAIMER
If McCain wins in November, I no doubt will be visiting Sweden more often and staying longer! |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 08/18/2008 : 06:06:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Dr.Mabuse.....
Your statement was:| I'd like to see more Americans in Guantanamo detention-like places, |
. If you had said .....more Republicans, or more non-voters, or more anybody that is not voting to oust the Bush neocons (like any of the stupid splinter voters for Nader, etc.); I would heartily agree with you. But your outrageous statement indicted all Americans. And that is just plain nonsense. |
You're delusional. I said "more Americans" in the context of Denver cop's new detention center, where you said there would be right-wing demonstrators.
And even if you were to take a random cut out of the population, you'd still pick three quarters of them who voted Bush, or by not caring allowed him to get elected.
They made their bed, now they should fucking sleep in it. Whining about it makes them hyppocrits.
So it is not bullshit. It accurately reflects the anti-Bush sentiment in the US today. |
No voting today will change what happened in 2000 and 2004. Those elections are what landed you where you are today.
| Think on that the next time you issue a blanket indictment of all Americans! |
Now, when I think of it... You're an American too. This means you believe I think you're a fucking brainless moron as well. Good grief, you right! How easy it becomes when you overstate someone's position to absurdity. If the shoe fits, wear it proudly.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 08/18/2008 06:07:45 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 01:34:21 [Permalink]
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Drabuse......
I have heard rumors (largely out of Minnesota, USA, a northern outpost that is rumored to be home to more Swedes than is the whole country of Sweden) that there were examples of your species that had been autopsied and were found to actually have cranial cavities fully ossified to solid bone! I was loath to believe these disturbing anecdotes until I read this:| I said "more Americans" in the context of Denver cop's new detention center, where you said there would be right-wing demonstrators. |
Your actual statement was:| I'd like to see more Americans in Guantanamo detention-like places, so they get a feel for what's going on Cuba. Maybe they'll realize the travesty of justice going on and pressure the politicians to make amends. |
If you had written "I'd like to see more Denver demonstrators in Guantanamo detention-like places", it would have made your intended "context" a little clearer! Must be your tentative grasp of the English language! Even Kil, the most forgiving specimen of humanity extant, said:| Mab. Have you looked at Bush's approval rating lately? Do you really believe that most or even a majority of Americans approve of Bush's disregard for human rights and the suspension of habeas corpus? Even our conservative supreme court ruled ruled against Bush on that issue. |
So I certainly am not the only brainless fucking moron who saw your statement as a mass indictment! | And even if you were to take a random cut out of the population, you'd still pick three quarters of them who voted Bush, or by not caring allowed him to get elected. |
To strengthen your argument, let's assume instead of sampling, you can actually interview the whole population. In this case that universe would be 219 million eligible voters to interview. We know that actually 62 million did vote for Bush and 59 million for Kerry, a total of 121 million! So that leaves 98 million that failed to vote. A failure to vote is at the same time either a vote for or a vote against either candidate, depending upon how you want to portray it.
62 million Bush voters plus 98 million non-voters is 160 million whose intent or inaction combined to elect Bush. 73% of the universe. This is where you get your "three quarters" figure.
But by exactly the same logic, 59 million Kerry voters plus 98 million non voters is 157 million voters whose intent and inaction failed to elect Kerry, 72% of the universe.
So Bush won, and Kerry lost the election by the combined inaction and intent of about 1% of the population of eligible voters! Big deal!
It was a close election. So what?
And 59 million Americans actually voted against Bush, more than five times the total population of your adopted country including little baby Swedes, teen Swedes, crazy Swedes, and senile Swedes. Which obviously proves that Americans are five times better than Swedes, even if all of you hate his guts, five times as many of us hate his guts!
The non-involvement of large numbers of Americans is apolitical - it reflects a huge, enormously diverse population that collectively does not put an extremely high value on politics of any stripe. However, I suspect that even if we had 80% or greater turnout, the margins of victory and defeat would be about the same as it is with really poor turnout.
A brighter and better educated electorate is the only possibility for a more liberal populace in the US. I really don't care a great deal about how many vote - rather that those who do vote, do it after becoming informed and have the requisite mental machinery to process the information they have absorbed!| Whining about it makes them hyppocrits [sic]. |
Who are hypocrites? Hypocrisy is not ignorance or stupidity. Republicans and non-voters are either or both of these. As to whining, I don't hear very many Bush voters whining and even fewer non-voters. The apolitical disinterested don't whine, they don't care! The Bushies just want another Bush, i.e. McCain. It is my belief that many of those "swing" voters that made a mistake in '04, know it and probably won't repeat it in '08. | No voting today will change what happened in 2000 and 2004. Those elections are what landed you where you are today. |
Brilliant observation! Not only stunning in it's perspicacity, but utterly useless also. He who dwells on the past and ignores the future is doomed to failure, ....fucking brainless moronity!
In any event, my example was hypothetical - I stated that| 100+ million of us loathe and despise the Cheney/Bush jackboots even more than you execrate the American people. |
and your sagacious response was "bullshit". I clearly demonstrated that your "bullshit" was bullshit! Instead of a defense of your "bullshit" comment , you make an inane comment on the impossibility of changing the past! Google Earth would have a hard time finding you on the map, you're all over it!!
| Now, when I think of it... You're an American too. This means you believe I think you're a fucking brainless moron as well. Good grief, you right! |
I take this to mean that I am correct in my assessment of your bigoted view that all Americans should be subjected to a period of imprisonment under conditions similar to those in Guantananamo, and in addition to that, you feel that Americans are "fucking brainless morons" The intensity of your condemnation increases exponentially. Your inclusion of me in the category of fucking brainless morons is insignificant alongside your anathematization of all Americans! | How easy it becomes when you overstate someone's position to absurdity. |
Well, then that must make it less than effortless for you to continuously bloviate these frequent denigrations of America, as your overstatement transcends absurdity into the realm of stultiloquence!
Your frustration at your inability to adequately express your views is painfully evident. The necessity to employ scatological personal insult in the place of reasoned argument is generally a result of insufficient vocabulary or insufficient intellectual resource. In either event, it does not advance the persuasion of your presentation, it reduces it to mere phatic communion. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 08/19/2008 : 11:01:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Drabuse......
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bngfuck, you just lost my interest.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/19/2008 : 11:39:58 [Permalink]
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Drabuse.....
| bngfuck, you just lost my interest. |
Sorry you can't follow the argument, but giving up is absolutely the way to make points in debate! Have a nice ignorant rest! |
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Orwellingly Yurz
SFN Regular
USA
529 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2008 : 20:49:20 [Permalink]
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YO: More On The Denver Cages Just In
No razor wire at Denver convention holding cells 8:50 PM ET
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/washington/AP-Democratic-Convention-Holding-Cells.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
DENVER (AP) -- Police have dropped plans to top the holding cells in place for use during next week's Democratic convention with razor wire after some groups started comparing the site to the detention facility for suspected terrorists at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.
Ain't it great to see the results of good journalism?
OY!
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"The modern conservative...is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy. That is the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness."
--John Kenneth Galbraith
If dogs run free
Then what must be,
Must be...
And that is all
--Bob Dylan
The neo-cons have gotten welfare for themselves down to a fine art.
--me
"The meek shall inherit the earth, but not the mineral rights."
--J. Paul Getty
"The great thing about Art isn't what it give us, but what we become through it."
--Oscar Wilde
"We have Art in order not to die of life."
--Albert Camus
"I cling like a miser to the freedom I lose when surrounded by an abundance of things."
--Albert Camus
"Experience is the name so many people give to their mistakes."
--Oscar Wilde |
| Edited by - Orwellingly Yurz on 08/20/2008 20:53:11 |
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Welcome to Guantanamo, Colorado
