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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 12:57:52 [Permalink]
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/12/2008 12:58:11 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2008 : 13:25:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Here is some scientific peer reviewed research on bill's level of comprehension. Enjoy, bill, and don't say I never did anything for ya.
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I actually kinda like it.
It certainly is catchy.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 13:30:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by Bill scott
But what does the experiment that you pointed out contain that allegedly abiousgenesis does not contain?
Manipulation with preconceived intent. Without it no experiment.
Your experiment actually demonstrates the need for manipulation with a preconceived intent for any chance at non-living matter becoming life or living matter.
Now where you and I will disagree is the cause behind the manipulation and preconceived intent in the real world model. |
Does this reasoning strike anyone else as stupid? And no, I have no other word for it.
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Very much so.
I'm thinking of an analogy, and present it later. I need to catch up with this thread. My internet connection has been going up and down a lot lately, I've been more offline than online, which means I have a lot of catching up to do.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:04:15 [Permalink]
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It suggests that the intend behind an action will change the result of an action.
Or that the objects/elements will adapt themselves to your thoughts.
Deep down; that is magical thinking. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:23:37 [Permalink]
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H. Humbert replied to Bill:
That's why I no longer try to have a reasonable discussion with you. Because you are incapable of it. It's beyond your ability. You can't even rise to the level where discussion is possible. So why come here when you can never accomplish anything?
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Actually, you're wrong, H. Humbert: Bill does accomplish something.
He serves as a reminder that religious people, is one retarded bunch, who loves to wallow in their own ignorance. He serves a reminder that rationality does not come naturally to all people, and that for some inexplicable reason, they would rather choose living in a fantasy-world than embrace reality.
But most importantly: Bill serves as a reminder that we must always be vigilant, lest people like Bill infect his surroundings with backwards ideas that ultimately is harmful to society.
Of course, it is not Bill's intention to be a laughing stock, but who are we to deny ourselves amusement when his willing ignorance is flaunted in our face?
Edited spelling. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 09/12/2008 14:38:37 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 14:30:19 [Permalink]
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I disagree with your assessment of religious people.
Some of them are very smart and open-minded people, always ready to reconsider what they think they know.
On the other hand, you don't have to be religious to cling to dogma like at a sky-scrapper, shooing away at the biplanes of reason and critical thinking. Albeit, Religion is the main supplier of dogma around. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 15:11:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Manipulation with preconceived intent. Without it no experiment.
Your experiment actually demonstrates the need for manipulation with a preconceived intent for any chance at non-living matter becoming life or living matter.
Now where you and I will disagree is the cause behind the manipulation and preconceived intent in the real world model. |
Using your logic, consider this scenario:
I see a lightning strike. Making a hypothesis that lightning is made by static electricity, I create an experiment by charging two objects with static electricity of opposite charge. Bang! I managed to recreate a lightning strike in my laboratory!
Since the lightning in my lab was made with preconcieved intent to create a lightning strike, this means that lightning strikes in nature also has intent.
The conclusion must be that lightning strikes by God's intent.
Ergo, God is real.
| Others than biologists are diligently researching cosmology, indeed, a major experiment is taking place in Europe even as we speak. |
Yes but that experiment begins with matter already in existence. The one that begins with no matter in existence and ends up with matter will be impressive. |
The experiment begins with matter, because it's the only way we can create that much ammount of energy that locally. When the protons in the accelerator are smashed together, we convert them into the energy needed to create matter.
When I flick on the switch that causes electricity to make the lamp glow, the energy that is the electricity comes from somewhere else. That energy is in my case captured from falling water. The energy has to come from somewhere. In the Large Hadron Collider it comes from smashing protons together, hard.
| I too, would like to know the origins of the universe but most likely never will.So at the moment, I am more concerned with the possible origins of life here on the already-existing Earth. Not as grandiose a question, I know, but one that is more likely to one day be answered. |
But my point is that knowing the origin of life only brings you right back to the origin of the matter and universe that made that life possible. |
You have to start somewhere...
Just because you're too impatient for science to work its course, doesn't make religious dogma any more valid.
Also:
| Nonsense, what we know at the end of the experiment is what kind of reactions would be possible in what kind of circumstances. |
Exactly. And in the case of abiogenesis we have no idea what kind of circumstances there were back then. Heck we don't even know when "back then" was. We have guesses and speculation but that is all. |
Ah, but we have a pretty good idea of what kind of circumstances there was back then.
And we do know approximately how far back that was. We know, thanks to the chemical composition of old rocks, asteroids and comets. And we know the age through radiometric dating.
| You guys just kill me. In all your glory and finite knowledge you like to make it sound as easy as a project for a 5th grade science fair. |
Too bad a 5th grade science fair is way over your head. Otherwise, educating you would have been easy.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 17:46:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
You got data that demonstrates that God is fast becoming homeless? |
Of course! Just ask yourself where science and medicine was just a few hundred years ago.
| Let me know when you refuse medical treatment in exchange solely for prayers to your god, by the way. |
I have never done this nor do I plan to. |
Of course not. Because you don't follow the very superstitious medical practices of the Middle Ages. In other words, you reject the notion that Yahweh and other supernatural spirits were directly responsible for illness, and that appeals to such supernatural beings through ritual could remedy such illnesses.
I'm glad you answered honestly. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 20:31:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Using your logic, consider this scenario:
I see a lightning strike. Making a hypothesis that lightning is made by static electricity, I create an experiment by charging two objects with static electricity of opposite charge. Bang! I managed to recreate a lightning strike in my laboratory!
Since the lightning in my lab was made with preconcieved intent to create a lightning strike, this means that lightning strikes in nature also has intent.
The conclusion must be that lightning strikes by God's intent.
Ergo, God is real. |
Aha, that's a perfect analogy, Doc. According to bill scott, any experiment, as it is necessarily performed by people, validates teleology. Ergo, Zeus must exist!  And bill wonders why we can't take him seriously any longer.
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
But most importantly: Bill serves as a reminder that we must always be vigilant, lest people like Bill infect his surroundings with backwards ideas that ultimately is harmful to society. |
Amen, brother. I don't have a word for such a malignant attitude toward knowledge that bill possesses other than evil. I consider him to be an evil man. And an evil that must be fought.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/12/2008 20:33:10 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/12/2008 : 23:13:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
And bill wonders why we can't take him seriously any longer. |
Well, it's not just his all-experiments-validate-teleology view. It's also the fact that he cannot offer any non-materialistic way of doing research, and that he refuses to take his "humans have limited knowledge" mantra to its logical extreme. All together, he's cherry-picking the reality he prefers, and having to do some heroic mental gymnastics when his selected ideals clash with actual reality.
If only he would use his powers for good. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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If this works out…
