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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
 Posted - 09/18/2008 : 21:16:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Chippewa
Then his damage control people, trying to blur over what he said, end up slighting Spain, a NATO ally, by clumsily implying that McCain says Spain would have to prove she's on our side.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONGFONFz4FM
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As if the Al Qaida bombing in Madrid wasn't proof enough of which side Spain has been the last 6 years...
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Yeah. but the current Spanish government got elected just after that and one of their first action was to widraw their troops from Iraq.
It was the first of the coalition member to leave Iraq and, from what the article mentions, it still a sore point for the Reps (with or against them, remeber). |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Mycroft
Skeptic Friend
USA
427 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2008 : 22:18:36 [Permalink]
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I don't know what to think about Palin, personally, and believe McCain may have made a mistake in her, but someone should play devil's-advocate in this discussion, so here goes:
Originally posted by Dude
She doesn't know what the word "hubris" means. Think about that, she lacks the vocabulary of your average HS student prepping for the SAT. |
I don't see anything in the article you quoted to suggest that.
Originally posted by Dude
She doesn't know what the "Bush Doctrine" is. She wants to be VP, yet she doesn't know the phrase for pre-emptive war that has been widely used by government and media for 5 years. |
From reading the transcript I don't think it's at all apparent she doesn't know what the “Bush Doctrine” is. She asked Gibson for clarification on his question, ”In what respect, Charlie?” which, to me, seems reasonable. It's not as though GWB has ever issues a proclamation specifying exactly what the “Bush Doctrine” is, but rather it's a tag various pundits have placed on statements made in a series of GWB's speeches outlining his opinions. Asking what it means to the questioner is prudent, I think, especially in a political interview where the answer is going to be taken as a definitive statement on her policies.
When Gibson clarifies the statement, even he adds the qualifier ”as I understand it” when he defines it as the belief that we have the right to a preemptive strike against any other country that we think is going to attack us. Once he gives that definition, Palin has no problem addressing it.
I would think that skeptics particularly would be inclined to admonish Gibson for the way he presses the issue. ”…let me finish with this. I got lost in a blizzard of words there. Is that a yes?” Palin wasn't at all unclear about her opinion, but he still wants to reduce it to a one word answer.
Originally posted by Dude
She seemed genuine on her answer about the "god's plan" stuff. STILL insane, just less insane than it appears when you see her giving that speech. |
I don't see anything that separates Palin's statements about God from any other politician. Every politician in the US will affirm a belief in God and then spout some meaningless crap about it. In that sense she's no different from Obama.
Originally posted by Dude
She is fairly good at the "dodge”… |
I don't even think that's a valid criticism of any politician, or even any person.
Expressing an opinion, any opinion, is more than just answering questions. The whole question/answer format is a dialogue where both questioner and questioned contribute to the outcome. As observers we tend to think of the questioner as neutral, but the reality is the questioner frames the issue, and sometimes the answerer needs to reframe the issue and change the context with his answer.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/19/2008 : 00:18:08 [Permalink]
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Yes, but which one would you rather have a beer with, Obama or McCain (or Palin; I've lost track of who's in charge over there)?
That has become the question that decides American elections; we don't care about competent leaders, just drinking buddies.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2008 : 04:53:04 [Permalink]
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Mycroft said:
I don't see anything in the article you quoted to suggest that.
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Then you didn't watch the video. It's pretty obvious that she doesn't know what hubris means.
And if I knew what the "bush doctrine" was, without having to be prompted, then the person who wants to be VP should know it as well.
Politicians, pundits, columnists, bloggers, and news anchors have been using the term for years.
When Gibson clarifies the statement, even he adds the qualifier ”as I understand it” when he defines it as the belief that we have the right to a preemptive strike against any other country that we think is going to attack us. Once he gives that definition, Palin has no problem addressing it.
I would think that skeptics particularly would be inclined to admonish Gibson for the way he presses the issue. ”…let me finish with this. I got lost in a blizzard of words there. Is that a yes?” Palin wasn't at all unclear about her opinion, but he still wants to reduce it to a one word answer.
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AFTER he defines it for her, you think she gave a good answer? That's hilarious. She bafflegabbed at him. Which is why he commented on her "blizzard" of words.
The woman is a pathetic joke. Even the last respectable republican in congress (Hagel) thinks so.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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chefcrsh
Skeptic Friend
Hong Kong
380 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2008 : 06:17:59 [Permalink]
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It just aired here in Hong Kong this evening. Shit, I am going to be up to my elbows in people asking me what the heck is wrong with my country...again...for the next few weeks...at least.
She was so bad at this, I still can not understand how anyone thought she would be a good choice for the ticket. Is it possible the republicans are just hoping they can be in the history books, for something other than negatives, instead with the first women VP candidate? |
| Edited by - chefcrsh on 09/19/2008 06:21:43 |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2008 : 06:51:50 [Permalink]
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Good god. Here she is being "interviewed" on Hannity, and she lies about her position on the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere"! I wouldn't expect Hannity to call her on it, but really. This has been debunked so many times that one struggles to imagine how she can keep playing that line!
We know she isn't going to do any real interviews, so I hope that Biden goes into the debate with the facts memorized so he can call her out on this point by point. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2008 : 07:15:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Good god. Here she is being "interviewed" on Hannity, and she lies about her position on the so-called "Bridge to Nowhere"! I wouldn't expect Hannity to call her on it, but really. This has been debunked so many times that one struggles to imagine how she can keep playing that line!
We know she isn't going to do any real interviews, so I hope that Biden goes into the debate with the facts memorized so he can call her out on this point by point.
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Her words:
"...We'd better kill the bridge because we know that the rest of the nation is not going to pay for it."
So in double talk, she admitted that they couldn't get enough funding for the bridge. All she killed was the hope that earmarks would cover the cost knowing that Alaskans weren't going to pay for it.
"I killed the Bridge Nowhere" loosely translated is; "I tried to get it but couldn't get the feds to pay for it."
Basically, even though Hannity was tying to help her, she managed debunked herself. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 12:19:48 [Permalink]
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More about Palin. Whether it's trustworthy or not, I'll leave it up to you.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 13:07:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
More about Palin. Whether it's trustworthy or not, I'll leave it up to you.
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It's pretty parallel with what I've read. And there is a very good reason for it: because, with the example of the Bush Administration, she can and will get away with it.
And why? Because our current Congress is a pack of clowns who are more interested in their careers than the welfare of their country. | All of this unmistakably signals that a McCain/Palin administration would mean a continuation of the worst abuses of the Bush/Cheney administration. Worse, it signals their commitment to the ongoing disappearance of Congress from how our country is governed, in lieu of all-powerful and unchecked Executive leaders (that is to say nothing about what an Obama/Biden administration would mean for any of that). |
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 16:50:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by chefcrsh
Is it possible the republicans are just hoping they can be in the history books, for something other than negatives, instead with the first women VP candidate?
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It's just that they are 20 (or so) years late. Didn't Democrats run a female VP candidate in the 80s? I asked about that a week or two ago, and Skeptic Friends said Dems did.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 17:22:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by chefcrsh
Is it possible the republicans are just hoping they can be in the history books, for something other than negatives, instead with the first women VP candidate?
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It's just that they are 20 (or so) years late. Didn't Democrats run a female VP candidate in the 80s? I asked about that a week or two ago, and Skeptic Friends said Dems did. |
Yes, Mondale did in '84 against Regan/Bush. I was just a kid then, but my impression is that Mondale never really stood a chance and the selection was more of a let's-make-this-historical sort of thing. But people who paid attention to elections and not, say, Pitfall, can correct me if I'm wrong. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/21/2008 : 21:33:56 [Permalink]
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| I loved Pitfall, so I cannot help. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Vic Daring
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 09/22/2008 : 10:41:51 [Permalink]
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In '84, Mondale's running mate was Geraldine Ferraro. She was the first female candidate on a major ticket.
She was also noteworthy in this year's campaign, as a Hillary surrogate, dismissing Obama's credentials and chalking his success up to his incredible good fortune of being born black with the name Barack (dare I say Hussein!) Obama.
She's jumped the shark. |
The man in black fled across the desert, and the gunslinger followed. |
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Palin Interview
