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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
 Posted - 09/29/2008 : 20:53:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
And, of course, you fail to mention that Obama is planning on reducing the cost of various program. The war in Iraq to name only the most important one...
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You also did not listen to Obama at the debate?
He said that he wanted to move the war from Iraq to Afghanistan with the potential invasion of Pakistan on the table.
His plan calls for no reduction of the funding for the American Empire building in the Middle East, just a change of venue.
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| Edited by - calebjones1234 on 09/29/2008 20:54:32 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 20:54:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
[quote]Except it's not; do you have trouble reading? You said "just an hour after" but the article said this happened "hours before" that.
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Are you this petty?
I said an hour after, and it was an hour before. So?
This has no relevance to the fact that $630 Billion of new money was pumped into the financial system no matter what the Congress did. The Congressional vote was theater. The money was delivered, was it not?
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Except that your post suggest that your post suggests that the federal reserve was by-passing the congress vetoing.
Except that, at the time, the federal reserve at no way to know that the measure will not pass. Indeed, it came as a big surprise for many.
So... maybe the two are not related?
The federal reserve often inject more money in the system... this is required by the perpetual inflation that has been going on for... forever.
How is this money injected in the economy, by the way? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 21:02:07 [Permalink]
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Well; considering that it was introduced after the black sunday; I'd say bull!
Promising new funds is a good way to restore, or at least slow down the erosion of the stock-holders' confidence. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 21:24:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
His plan calls for no reduction of the funding for the American Empire building in the Middle East, just a change of venue. |
Ah, think I see what we're dealing with here. A Ron Paul isolationist. It's all beginning to make sense now.
Originally posted by calebjones1234
The government encouraged the making of bad loans for the purpose of allowing 'minorities' to own homes. Laudable goal, goals do not pay the bills. |
Right, this current fiscal meltdown is, at heart, the fault of all those no good blacks and Hispanics. What a crock of shit.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 09/29/2008 22:00:38 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2008 : 23:06:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by moakley
[quote]I just don't see this helping McCain, either. Prior to the vote McCain and his cronies were taking credit for the bill. Showing true leadership by phoning it in over the weekend. Does he accept responsibility for its failure. Nope. They blame it on harse words describing the reality of the last 8 years. Poor babies. Poor whinning fucking babies.
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???
McCain is a Senator, the Senate did not vote on this bill.
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A presidential candidate is the traditionally assumed leader of his/her whole party. McCain's party in the House shot down the bailout, thus showing either he either didn't want to, or couldn't, control his party's actions in a critical situation.
Even had McCain been, say, the Governor of Arizona, instead of a US Senator, the same critique would apply, as leader of his party. In contrast, Obama's party largely supported the bill's passage. Note also that the GOP generally has in the past had much better "party discipline" than did the Democrats. But no longer, it seems.
None of this is good for McCain, and it's all good for Obama.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 02:39:07 [Permalink]
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cablejones said:
| The government encouraged the making of bad loans for the purpose of allowing 'minorities' to own homes. Laudable goal, goals do not pay the bills. |
You should do two things right away. First, put the crackpipe down. Second, stop listening to FAUXNews and "conservative" talk radio.
After you do those two things, you should use "the google" (I'm only assuming you are capable of performing a basic internet search, obviously I could be mistaken) and find yourself some stats on who is actually doing most of the defaulting on bad mortgages. I'll give you a hint: It ain't minorities.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 04:24:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by moakley
[quote]I just don't see this helping McCain, either. Prior to the vote McCain and his cronies were taking credit for the bill. Showing true leadership by phoning it in over the weekend. Does he accept responsibility for its failure. Nope. They blame it on harse words describing the reality of the last 8 years. Poor babies. Poor whinning fucking babies.
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???
McCain is a Senator, the Senate did not vote on this bill.
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Didn't see any news Yesterday did you. I saw clips of McCain, Romney, and another republican claiming that due to the leadership shown by McCain, bringing the parties together, and enabling bi-partisan support. In other words they were each assigning credit for the passage of the bill. More political grandstanding.
Now I wonder if whether Pelosis speach was more deliberate than I first assumed. That passing this unpopular legislation and allowing McCain in any way to get leadership credit didn't set well with her and other democratic leaders. Recognizing the fragile support amoung republican she gave a speach placing blame. An effort to force McCain and his campaign to flounder and backtrack on their words when the bill failed.
As soon as McCain stuck his nose into this last week presidential politics took presidence over passing difficult compromise legislation. As far as I can tell both sides are now guilty political posturing during what has been called a crisis.
I think we need to clean house (of representative). Of course voting against my incumbent representative will be easy. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 04:46:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
This has no relevance to the fact that $630 Billion of new money was pumped intjavascript:hyperlink();o the financial system no matter what the Congress did. The Congressional vote was theater. The money was delivered, was it not? |
Only if the two actions are the same. But they're not. Here is how the "bailout" was supposed to work:Treasury plans to hire asset managers to determine how to buy bad loans and other ailing assets from financial institutions. Many of the details, including pricing and purchase procedures, will be worked out between those managers and Treasury. The legislation requires Treasury to set guidelines within 45 days for pricing methods and setting the value of troubled assets, as well as mechanisms for purchasing assets, procedures for selecting asset managers and criteria for identifying troubled assets to buy.
The legislation requires Treasury to purchase assets at the lowest price, and allows the government to buy through auction or direct from institutions.
Treasury expects to start buying the simplest assets first -- mortgage-backed securities, for example -- followed by more complex securities. Treasury likely will publish a list of the assets it is seeking to purchase. Banks and other institutions are expected to submit bids in a competition to sell bad loans and securities. |
Meanwhile, here is what the Fed did yesterday:Even before the House stunned the world on Monday by rejecting the Bush administration's bailout bill, the Fed was already resorting to the oldest action in its book: printing money.
With money markets around the world seizing in fear, the Fed on Monday announced that it would provide an extra $150 billion through an emergency lending program for banks, and an additional $330 billion through so-called swap lines with foreign central banks to help money markets from Europe to Asia.
It was an extraordinary display of financial power, and it reflected acute new anxiety at the Fed and central banks around the world that the crisis of confidence in American financial markets had metastasized to money markets everywhere. |
So your suggestion that some nefarious shadow government is acting on a plan even if Congress rejected it is incorrect.
As for the chronology; I apologize. You sound rather conspiratorial, and the argument that Congress didn't do something, so the crypto-communists stepped in and did it anyway doesn't hold up. Instead, it was that while Congress deliberated on plan A, the Fed did plan B.
Again, they're two different things. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 06:00:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
cablejones said:
| The government encouraged the making of bad loans for the purpose of allowing 'minorities' to own homes. Laudable goal, goals do not pay the bills. |
You should do two things right away. First, put the crackpipe down. Second, stop listening to FAUXNews and "conservative" talk radio.
After you do those two things, you should use "the google" (I'm only assuming you are capable of performing a basic internet search, obviously I could be mistaken) and find yourself some stats on who is actually doing most of the defaulting on bad mortgages. I'll give you a hint: It ain't minorities. |
I did some searching on the Google and found this article:
Did Liberals Cause the Sub-Prime Crisis?
Conservatives blame the housing crisis on a 1977 law that helps-low income people get mortgages. It's a useful story for them, but it isn't true.
It's pretty clear that 1977 Community Reinvestment Act really had little to do with the current sub-prime crisis. |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 19:09:36 [Permalink]
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Look at Obama and his contributions taken from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac .
All Recipients of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Campaign Contributions, 1989-2008
Dodd, Christopher J S CT D $165,400 $48,500 $116,900
Obama, Barack S IL D $126,349 $6,000 $120,349
Kerry, John S MA D $111,000 $2,000 $109,000 |
This is over the last ten years.
Obama has received more in the last two years than anyone in the Senate.
Typical corrupt Illinois politician. |
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Cuneiformist
The Imperfectionist
USA
4955 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 20:05:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Typical corrupt Illinois politician. |
This is an odd non sequitur. You've gone from at least trying to make a point to just spouting nonsense.
But at least you're not cryptic!  |
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calebjones1234
BANNED
95 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 21:03:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by calebjones1234
Typical corrupt Illinois politician. |
This is an odd non sequitur. You've gone from at least trying to make a point to just spouting nonsense.
But at least you're not cryptic!
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A point does not seem to be able to be made to you concerning this topic. You reflectively fell into the defense position of 'It is not our fault'. Do you realize that the theater of the House vote was attempting to cause such reactions from the public?
You have been manipulated.
You are viewing the subject with an Us vs Them mentality. This was exactly the point of the vote, Pelosi's speech prior to the vote accusing the GOP, and the GOP's response after the vote blaming Pelosi. You should really attempt to watch the theater live as opposed to allowing yourself to be told by others what to think.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 21:10:11 [Permalink]
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Originally quoted by calebjones1234
...1989-2008 |
And then said:| ...over the last ten years. |
And then:Where were all these numbers coming from, and why are they seemingly random? Looks like the quoted part was a cut-and-paste, but from where? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 21:23:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by calebjones1234
Originally posted by Cuneiformist
Originally posted by calebjones1234
Typical corrupt Illinois politician. |
This is an odd non sequitur. You've gone from at least trying to make a point to just spouting nonsense.
But at least you're not cryptic!
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A point does not seem to be able to be made to you concerning this topic. You reflectively fell into the defense position of 'It is not our fault'. Do you realize that the theater of the House vote was attempting to cause such reactions from the public?
You have been manipulated.
You are viewing the subject with an Us vs Them mentality. This was exactly the point of the vote, Pelosi's speech prior to the vote accusing the GOP, and the GOP's response after the vote blaming Pelosi. You should really attempt to watch the theater live as opposed to allowing yourself to be told by others what to think.
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So... it was some kind of conspiracy? |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2008 : 21:58:22 [Permalink]
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Hummer.....
| I also have a very bad feeling about all this. Part of me thinks this is much, much worse than anyone has yet to fully realize. Call me an optimist I guess. |
Yeah, Hummer., you are dead on center here. We ain't seen nuthin' yet!| Part of me thinks this is much, much worse than anyone has yet to fully realize. |
Way, way optimistic! The shit has hit the jet turbine! |
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Bailout rejected by the House
