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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 10/20/2008 : 10:59:00 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't worry about it. Powell yet has a certain amount of influence, but has become even less relevant than the all-but-dead duck, Bush. This will decline even farther. Link
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 11:23:18 [Permalink]
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The Freeperville opinion, worthless as usual, but the comments tell of what Powell is looking at for the next century or so. The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 13:43:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
Originally posted by Kil
Sometimes, Gorgo I think you view the world as divided up by criminals and good guys. |
Unlike you, who seems to be supporting murder "in hindsight" because of a need to violate the law in order eliminate evil from the world.
These people knew what they were doing. Powell wasn't "duped" any more than I was. If they disagreed, they disagreed only in how to murder and impoverish Iraqis.
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Welp, okay then. No difference between the neocons and the moderates. Got it.
Thanks for making my point.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 15:40:31 [Permalink]
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Kil is right. Powell is a walking, talking, saluting oxymoron -an intelligent military man! A black man who has progressed farther in the American military and then politics than any other, (with the exception of Obama) - he has been horribly conflicted by his devotion of duty to the Commander in Chief on the one hand, and his brain - which has told him for a long time that his CIC was giving the wrong orders - on the other hand!
Early on, he, very cleverly, saw the military as a way that he could rise to the top as a black man far easier than any other way! He saw the Republican party as the repository of money and power that was controlling the country at that time, and coldly calculated that he should be a Republican!
But having arrived as Secretary of State, having filled his belly, so to speak; he began to have doubts about the deal with the Devil that he had made. When Cheney and Chums dreamed up the Iraq caper, Powell had to go along, or else walk and disobey his Commander in Chief and lose his Republican creds. He knew it was wrong, he knew it would become a disaster, but he went along out of expedience!
His conscience lost to his ambition and military indoctrination!
If you want to see an excellent dramatization of this internal conflict of Powell's, see 'W'.
Gorgo, you sound like you suffer from the same antipodal thinking that characterizes the religious fundamentalists! Everything in life is not black and white, good or bad, right or wrong - in fact damn little is! Powell is a highly complex human being, with some very reprehensible flaws together with some very attractive and commendable qualities.
On balance, I feel that Powell's venality surpasses his integrity and that is why I call him am opportunist. He endorses Obama because Obama is black and in today's political world, black is power, because Obama is going to win, and because the Republicans rejected him, Powell, as a presidential candidate, because Rove (correctly) decided the redneck Republican base would never accept a n----- as a serious Republican presidential candidate. (I am making a 90% accurate guess as to Rove's actual words)
Bet me that Powell does not have a post in the Obama cabinet! He will be a very considerable asset. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 16:16:51 [Permalink]
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bng said:
(I am making a 90% accurate guess as to Rove's actual words)
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Yuh huh.
I'll take your bet on Powel getting an Obama cabinet position as well. No chance in hell of that happening, imo.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 17:03:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I'll take your bet on Powel getting an Obama cabinet position as well. No chance in hell of that happening, imo. |
From Jackie May:...Obama said that he would give Powell an advisory role if he were to make it to the White House: "Whether he wants to take a formal role, whether that's a good fit for him, is something we'd have to discuss," he said on NBC's "Today" show on Monday. Kinda odd that the first place I found that was a South African newspaper blog. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 17:40:19 [Permalink]
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Advisory role is far different from cabinet post!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 18:32:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Everything in life is not black and white, good or bad, right or wrong - in fact damn little is! |
Exactly my point. You must believe in a black/white world to believe these fighters of evil, these people with manichean world views, are anything but criminals.
Powell is a fine man who made a mistake. Fine. There are lots of fine people in prison who make mistakes. They are not being considered for cabinet positions.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/20/2008 18:36:09 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 18:42:37 [Permalink]
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No difference between the neocons and the moderates. Got it.
Thanks for making my point.
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Thanks for showing how well you twist things. I didn't say there was no difference between neocons and moderates. I said that people who attack other countries in violation of international law and kill and impoverish millions are criminals. What did you think they are? Moderates?
Okay. Charles Manson is not a moderate. The woman who absconded with a half a million dollars that belong to the company I work for is a moderate. Which is the criminal? |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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| Edited by - Gorgo on 10/20/2008 18:46:07 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 21:01:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Gorgo
No difference between the neocons and the moderates. Got it.
Thanks for making my point.
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Thanks for showing how well you twist things. I didn't say there was no difference between neocons and moderates. I said that people who attack other countries in violation of international law and kill and impoverish millions are criminals. What did you think they are? Moderates?
Okay. Charles Manson is not a moderate. The woman who absconded with a half a million dollars that belong to the company I work for is a moderate. Which is the criminal?
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No Gorgo. What you did was wave away the fact that Colin Powell tried to get the president to not to go the way of the neocons, because he too is a criminal. You don't acknowledge the good because you can't see past the bad. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 21:45:55 [Permalink]
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Well, Kil, you have to admit there is an awfull lot of bad to overlook in this particular instance.
I'm not taking gorgo's extreme position, but Powel is responsible for his part. If he had the courage to walk away and speak out publicly do you think we'd be in the same place we are now? No. He took the easy way out though. The path that preserved his credibility and relationships with the republicans.
His endorsement of Obama earns him back only a small bit of respect, not nearly enough to wipe away his cowardice though. The fact that conservatives are abandoning McCain in droves recently lessens the impact of this endorsement as well. Powel didn't really put anything on the line, again. Fuck, when freakshow conservatives like Noonan are endorsing Obama its easy for Powel to hop aboard that train.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 01:19:18 [Permalink]
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Powell acted properly as a military officer, making his objection to his superiors, then marching as ordered. Unfortunately, Powell was no longer a military officer at the time, but Secretary of State.
Powell told the Administration's lies at the UN. Compare this to UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson, who in 1961 told the UN that the CIA had not invaded Cuba at the Bay of Pigs. Stevenson only found out later that he's been lied to by the Kennedy White House, and had even been given faked photos to show to the UN. Powell, by contrast knew he was lying for the Bushies.
He could have very conceivably been the nucleus of an effective political movement to stop the Iraq war before it began, had he resigned and made his reason clear to the public. He should have tried, even if he suspected he'd probably fail. Being a "good soldier" was his previous job. Acting the same way as Secretary of State in a democracy was just wrong.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/21/2008 01:26:00 |
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 03:07:50 [Permalink]
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You don't acknowledge the good because you can't see past the bad.
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You didn't mention that Charlie Manson was a good singer. What a distorted view of the world you have. |
I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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Gorgo
SFN Die Hard
USA
5310 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 03:36:05 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Well, Kil, you have to admit there is an awfull lot of bad to overlook in this particular instance.
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Look, the guy needed a job, and he sold his soul to feed his family. Give him a break.
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I know the rent is in arrears
The dog has not been fed in years
It's even worse than it appears
But it's alright-
Jerry Garcia
Robert Hunter
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chaloobi
SFN Regular
1620 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 05:39:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Dude
Bet you the talk radio jerkoffs will mirror him, and more, monday. |
No need to wait. Rush Limbaugh sent an email no later than 2 PM today:Rush Limbaugh suggested Powell's move was very much related to Obama's status as the first African-American with a chance to become president.
"Secretary Powell says his endorsement is not about race," Limbaugh wrote in an e-mail. "OK, fine. I am now researching his past endorsements to see if I can find all the inexperienced, very liberal, white candidates he has endorsed. I'll let you know what I come up with."
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When NPR reported that while I was shaving yesterday morning, my first thought was that it would not affect anyone who's not already planning to vote Obama. It's too easy to brush it off as a race thing. It might even have been better if Powell stayed neutral as this reinforces the whisper campaign that blacks stick together and a black president won't have the interests of whites on his mind. |
-Chaloobi
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General Powell does the right thing!
