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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2008 : 22:53:35
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For anyone here that may have missed today's incredible astronomy announcement....
"Astronomers capture first images of newly discovered solar system
A team of researchers was able to see three orbiting planetary companions to HR8799 using high-contrast, near-infrared adaptive optics observations."
...read on:
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=7595
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
 Posted - 11/13/2008 : 23:21:09 [Permalink]
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| COOL! |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 02:47:37 [Permalink]
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Quite astounding. Looks as though we're seeing those giant planets from a viewpoint high above their local ecliptic.
I can't wait for the first spectrograms of oxygen or water vapor to come in from planets somewhere in our stellar neighborhood. When we see that, we'll know life there is almost certain.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 04:17:58 [Permalink]
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APOD posted about it today...
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081114.html |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 05:00:32 [Permalink]
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But Fomalhaut is not HR8799.
Ah! The image of Fomalhaut is the first visible light image of a planet orbiting a star other than the Sun. The image of HR8799 is in near-infrared, but is the first image of a multi-planet solar system other than ours.
Confusing that these two stories came out on the same day. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 11/14/2008 : 05:48:46 [Permalink]
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And thus the possibility of visiting space aliens is slightly increased. The UFO floggers are going to have a lot of fun with this -- I'll have to start keeping track of The Anomalist again.
But agreeing with Hawks, this is way cool! And as the science gets yet more precise, perhaps we'll soon see smaller planets.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 10:15:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
But Fomalhaut is not HR8799.
Ah! The image of Fomalhaut is the first visible light image of a planet orbiting a star other than the Sun. The image of HR8799 is in near-infrared, but is the first image of a multi-planet solar system other than ours.
Confusing that these two stories came out on the same day.
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Very cool. Fomalhaut is approximately 3x the size of Jupiter....how big can a gas giant get before it forms a star itself? |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 11:50:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Fomalhaut is approximately 3x the size of Jupiter....
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Fomalhaut is a tad bit bigger than 3x Jupiter, and brighter than a brown dwarf. You were probably thinking of Fomalhaut b.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 11:56:17 [Permalink]
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According to this dude a planet should be around 85 times the size of Jupiter before having a chance for its core to start a nuclear fusion.
However, smaller objects can 'burn' heavier elements like deuterium. However, the quantity of these elements are much more limited than the omnipresent hydrogen and this fusion runs out more quickly, forming what these guys call 'brown dwarfs'.
Also; based purely on me own reflections and not that of somebody that actually knows what he is talking about; I would expect that such a massived object would never end up inside a solar system.
Either these two stars would be further apart, forming a dual star system, or the gravity pull between the two objects would tear them apart, before they accreted into distinct objects; leading to the formation of one single star. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
| Edited by - Simon on 11/14/2008 11:57:05 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 12:20:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Very cool. Fomalhaut is approximately 3x the size of Jupiter....how big can a gas giant get before it forms a star itself? |
The three planets around HR8799 are 10, 10 and 7 Jupiter masses. 3X ain't nuthin'.
For comparison, one solar mass is about 1,048 Jupiter masses. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 12:50:50 [Permalink]
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These hefty worlds are amazing. It would be something to see them up close and in detail. For now, we'll have to rely on a future Chesley Bonestell for that.
Someday they'll find an Earthlike planet with an oxygen-nitrogen atmosphere within the comfort zone of its star, and if its within 10-20 light-years, (still a staggering distance in human terms,) we'll nevertheless figure out how to go there. (After all, we're monkeys. We have to see what's over the next hill.)  |
Diversity, independence, innovation and imagination are progressive concepts ultimately alien to the conservative mind.
"TAX AND SPEND" IS GOOD! (TAX: Wealthy corporations who won't go poor even after taxes. SPEND: On public works programs, education, the environment, improvements.) |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 13:20:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Also; based purely on me own reflections and not that of somebody that actually knows what he is talking about; I would expect that such a massived object would never end up inside a solar system. |
I see no reason why it couldn't be inside the system. The existence of Mercury proves that at such a distance from the sun, a body can exist without being ripped apart by gravitational forces. Also consider, that there are variable binary stars with period less than 88 days indicating they are much closer to each other (or the combined mass of the two are much greater than the sun) than the Sun and Mercury.
But you won't find stable orbits close to those stars. Probably not within the habitable zone. (At least that is my own conjecture. Some day I mean to take that astrophysics course at the University...)
Either these two stars would be further apart, forming a dual star system, or the gravity pull between the two objects would tear them apart, before they accreted into distinct objects; leading to the formation of one single star.
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There's a specific name for the distance where stars (or satellites) starts ripping each-other up. Roche limit. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 11/14/2008 : 13:57:55 [Permalink]
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Thanks Mab.
Yeah; I'd think that such massive objects so close from their star would be within each other Roche lobe.
As for the periodicity of binary star... I think (think being the key word) that, at this point the gravity pull really start working both way.
In the case of mercury, its mass is negligible compared to that of the sun, and hence, it turns around the sun.
In the case of a binary star, they turn around each other and I think that the momentum is formed by the added efforts of boss the objects pull. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/15/2008 : 03:29:58 [Permalink]
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| Yes, the center of mass will be between the two stars, and each star's respective mass will cause wobbling in the planetary orbits. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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First images of newly discovered solar system
