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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2009 : 10:28:19
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He'll be signing it into action on on Monday!
...snip:
White House aides confirmed Friday that Obama will announce a stem cell policy shift in an East Room ceremony. He is expected to lift restrictions imposed by President George W. Bush in August 2001.
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"I don't think they appreciate how much the floodgates will open," said Kriegstein, who expects that the money could fund about 200 projects. "I wouldn't be surprised if we had that many applications from UCSF alone."
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2009 : 11:40:17 [Permalink]
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To me, that's a really big deal. The ending of an era of extremely obscene theocratic interference in science and medicine.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2009 : 13:35:03 [Permalink]
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| Good news! |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
 Posted - 03/07/2009 : 14:16:21 [Permalink]
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Not just stem cell research - embryonic stem cell research.
Just be careful about taking a job in certain states if you plan to start doing embryonic stem call research. From a 2/24/2009 article in the Washington Times:
By defining "personhood" as the moment the egg is fertilized, advocates say they can mount a more effective and direct challenge to Roe. This year, five states — Alabama, Maryland, North Dakota, Montana and South Carolina — have introduced personhood legislation.
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Last year, personhood ballot measures in Colorado and Montana were defeated, although supporters say the effort helped raise the movement's profile.
Oregon has launched a petition drive to place a personhood amendment on the 2010 ballot, and a similar effort is expected to begin shortly in Mississippi. |
[Edited to correct the name of the source cited]
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
| Edited by - Zebra on 03/07/2009 14:18:05 |
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Zebra
Skeptic Friend
USA
354 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2009 : 14:30:38 [Permalink]
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Applying the law of unintended consequences to proposed legislation applying "personhood" to fertilized eggs:
(1) Pregnancy can't be diagnosed/detected until implantation, about 14 days after fertilization. We'd have "persons" hiding from detection by the government for 2 weeks at a time - wouldn't that be unacceptable in this era of perpetual "Orange Alert"?
(2) An estimated 50-60% of fertilized eggs do not implant, and around 1/3 of recognized pregnancies end in spontaneous miscarriage. Seems like only a matter of time before someone sues some woman for manslaughter (embryo-slaughter?) for having a period, or an early miscarriage.
(3) Pregnant women would be required to pay for 2, not 1, persons between conception and delivery, for example in admission fees. Prospective parents would need to pay taxes on their unborn dependent "persons", and would need to get social security numbers assigned right after conception. On the other hand, pregnant women could take advantage of commuter lanes in heavy traffic.
(4) Not only would embryonic stem cell research be illegal in states defining embryos as persons (though doesn't federal law legally trump state law?), but there could be no research studies on pregnant women - because the researchers would be unable to get consent from the other "person" being studied.
*Disclosure: I have not read through any of the proposed legislation to see whether or not they managed to account for these potential ramifications of the personhood laws.
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I think, you know, freedom means freedom for everyone* -Dick Cheney
*some restrictions may apply |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2009 : 14:31:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Zebra
Not just stem cell research - embryonic stem cell research.
Just be careful about taking a job in certain states if you plan to start doing embryonic stem call research. From a 2/24/2009 article in the Washington Times:
By defining "personhood" as the moment the egg is fertilized, advocates say they can mount a more effective and direct challenge to Roe. This year, five states — Alabama, Maryland, North Dakota, Montana and South Carolina — have introduced personhood legislation.
...
Last year, personhood ballot measures in Colorado and Montana were defeated, although supporters say the effort helped raise the movement's profile.
Oregon has launched a petition drive to place a personhood amendment on the 2010 ballot, and a similar effort is expected to begin shortly in Mississippi. |
[Edited to correct the name of the source cited]
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Notice the sneaky way the Washington Times writes: Oregon has launched a petition drive to place a personhood amendment on the 2010 ballot, and a similar effort is expected to begin shortly in Mississippi.
[My emphasis.] |
Is that "Oregon" the geographical entity? Or is it "Oregon" the entire population of the state (where by popular ballot measure, the voters have years ago legalized dignified assisted suicide for terminal patients)? Or by "Oregon," is the Moonie-owned Washington Times actually referring to a minority faction of loud-mouthed Christian fundamentalists who wish they could impose their theocracy upon the people of that state?
Let me guess.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/07/2009 14:32:40 |
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2009 : 10:46:23 [Permalink]
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I am still waiting for the miracle cures promised by fetal tissue research.
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"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2009 : 11:04:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by WarfRat
I am still waiting for the miracle cures promised by fetal tissue research. |
Still? What's your timetable and why do you think researchers should be expected to meet it?
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2009 : 11:50:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by WarfRat
I am still waiting for the miracle cures promised by fetal tissue research.
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Now -- at long last! -- such research can begin in earnest.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 07:17:20 [Permalink]
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| I just want all of those against this to sign a formal document swearing, under penalty of prison, that they will not in any way use any medical benefits of this technology for themselves, nor receive any benefits from another person, nor give any of the benefits to another person. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 08:53:53 [Permalink]
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In to condo where I live, the neighbour I like the most was just diagnosed with Alzheimer. I got the news this morning. Bummer. I hope stem-cell research finds a cure soon.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 09:28:35 [Permalink]
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And, hopefully, soon enough to save Terry Pratchett.
Best wishes to your neighbour, Mab. |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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WarfRat
New Member
49 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 10:13:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Now -- at long last! -- such research can begin in earnest.
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You'd hope.
But they've been doing work on fetal tissue since the 30's. In the late 70's and early 80's there was the push for Federal Funding. To sell it to the public they said it COULD cure Parkinsons and Alzheimers.
Parkinsons and Alzheimers are still there but we now know more about pre-natal issues.
Now it's Stem Cells..bring out the dog and pony show....again.
I am understandably skeptical about it.
This keeps on looking like snake oil to me. They should focus on the human genome project.
Don't get me wrong, there will be some great discoveries made in this research. But don't give me that sales pitch. It like that feed the children ad.
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"I believe...that one benefits the workers...so much more by forcing through reforms which alleviate and strengthen their position, than by saying that only a revolution can help them." |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 12:04:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
I just want all of those against this to sign a formal document swearing, under penalty of prison, that they will not in any way use any medical benefits of this technology for themselves, nor receive any benefits from another person, nor give any of the benefits to another person.
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Would you hold a person to it? If I signed this document and then developed a terminal disease that this kind research has been used to find a cure for, would you let live if I wanted to use the cure? Or would you let me die because I disagreed with you on an ethical issue? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 12:36:27 [Permalink]
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I'd let you die for hypocracy's sake...feel free to let me die for whatever reason you see fit.
Seriously though,
In this hypothetical future would you have changed your stance on the ethics of it? |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2009 : 12:55:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
I just want all of those against this to sign a formal document swearing, under penalty of prison, that they will not in any way use any medical benefits of this technology for themselves, nor receive any benefits from another person, nor give any of the benefits to another person.
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Would you hold a person to it? If I signed this document and then developed a terminal disease that this kind research has been used to find a cure for, would you let live if I wanted to use the cure? Or would you let me die because I disagreed with you on an ethical issue?
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But, that'd be rather hypocritical, isn't it?
Being against something until it directly benefit you...
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Obama to restore stem cell funding
