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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2009 : 13:38:24
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The movie is so good, in my opinion, everyone who has ever enjoyed anything coming from Gene Roddenberry's franchise ought to see it. It's the best of the Star Trek movies, it's better than all the series put together. If this had been the first Star Trek on small or large screen, it would have birthed a new phenomenon all by itself.
It's simply an astounding regenerative accomplishment.
The casting is superb. Not only are Star Trek (TOS) bridge officers replaced with young and similar looking faces, these replacement actors have worked hard to get their characters right, and it shows. (Karl Urban's rendition of ship's doctor "Bones" McCoy is simply uncanny.)
The special effects by Industrial Light and Magic are breathtaking. More than in any science fiction movie I can recall, vast size and spacial distance are communicated believably.
There's a plot device that may make some orthodox Trekkies angry, but it was a device perfectly in keeping with the range of things that often happened in TOS, the movies, and the other several TV series. I won't go into this device, as it's a spoiler.
The writing and pacing are excellent. No dull moments. Plenty of character-based fun. Despite its thriller pace, there is a lot of humor.
See it!
Moved from book reports which is not moderated, to general discussion because there is something wrong with the administrators approve feature. That is, I approved the OP and it didn't take.
Kil
[Moved back to Book Reviews as a test - Dave W... Looks good, don't see a moderation problem.]
[I wonder what happened? I have approved lots of reviews and this was the first one that reverted back on me. Kil ]
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
Edited by - HalfMooner on 05/08/2009 19:31:38
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2009 : 23:16:22 [Permalink]
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But where does it go from here, now that everything is gone.
- One Orthodox Trekkie |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 00:05:54 [Permalink]
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I saw the movie and liked it a lot.
But I am not a trekkie by any stretch, really, to me the only redeeming feature with the whole series was how how t'pel looked...
Still, I liked it a fair bit and will probably go and hunt down the movie, and probably the 'next generation' series... |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 08:05:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by dglas
But where does it go from here, now that everything is gone.
- One Orthodox Trekkie
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They are essentially in place to begin an entirely new and fresh "five year mission." New TV series, new movies, whatever they like.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 13:35:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by dglas
But where does it go from here, now that everything is gone.
- One Orthodox Trekkie
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They are essentially in place to begin an entirely new and fresh "five year mission." New TV series, new movies, whatever they like.
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I understand that, HalfMooner. The difficulty is we have also lost everything of the old Star Trek except the character names. That includes all the character development - our memories of all those character interactions, whatever ideas or wisdom may have been implied or inferred. The vision is gone, unless they re-establish it down the road. It relies on our fond memories while, at the same time, wiping them out and rendering them moot.
This was a fun, enjoyable movie, and had some good character drive to it, but it didn't challenge us in any way whatsoever - other than trying to reconcile the plot to itself. I'll watch more of it, because it is good, fun space opera/action/adventure, and maybe it will pick up on it's speculative fiction roots as it goes, but right now it's Starship Troopers. |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2009 : 22:32:59 [Permalink]
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We'll just have to see what they do with it, dglas. At least this movie is lively, comprehensible, and essentially true to the basic TOS characters. It's given the franchise a new opportunity to move forward. I do hope that sequels will be a bit more cerebral (but not too much so), but I think this movie was a brilliant idea. I hope future movies will make social statements, but not as heavy-handed as some of those clunkers that Roddenberry did in TOS.
Of course, my comments are from a guy whose favorite reading matter is alternate history science fiction. I gey a kick out of exactly what irks some orthodox Trekkies.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2009 : 02:37:14 [Permalink]
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The movie was great!
Though there are things that raised my eye-brow because I thought it our-of-character.
Apart from that, I have to join HalfMooner's praise in not just the different aspects of the movie, but the opportunity for future films and series. I don't think it rates as the top movie of the eleven, but definitly top half or even top five.
At the same time, I also have to agree with dglas that we lost that something that make Star Trek stand apart from any other sci-fi movie. I hope they find it again.
An awsome movie, that incudes both action and some comedy in the right doses. Characters are true to their originals. Not just the main cast but others as well. I didn't pay much attention to which actors was going to be in the movie, so my jaw dropped at the end of the movie when the cast list flashed names as Winona Ryder, Eric Bana, and Carl Urban.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 08:03:20 [Permalink]
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Mooner wrote: The movie is so good, in my opinion, everyone who has ever enjoyed anything coming from Gene Roddenberry's franchise ought to see it. It's the best of the Star Trek movies, it's better than all the series put together. If this had been the first Star Trek on small or large screen, it would have birthed a new phenomenon all by itself.
It's simply an astounding regenerative accomplishment. |
This is where I gotta disagree. It is a well-crafted but standard Hollywood blockbuster. As a stand alone movie connected to no franchise, it would not have birthed a new phenomenon any more than "Independence Day" did. I did enjoy it, but I enjoyed it in the same way that I enjoyed "Independence Day" - as a fast-paced adventure film where the primary objective was entertainment.
I won't deny that action, contrived plot devices, and gaping plot holes aren't in keeping with the original Star Trek. They certainly are. But the main intention of Gene Roddenberry was to use fiction and drama to explore certain ideas. He had a vision. And the sex and violence and often overwroght action and adventure was about maintaining a broader audience, it wasn't the meat of the show and it wasn't what made it a sustainable franchise.
It is easily arguable that Roddenberry's vision was actualized in Next Generation, which was much more sophisticated and contemplative than the original series. But true fans can't help but be also enamored by the original show that started it all, and certainly the original characters of Spock, Kirk, Bones, etc. and their social dynamic is endearing to anyone who enjoys some good character development.
| The casting is superb. Not only are Star Trek (TOS) bridge officers replaced with young and similar looking faces, these replacement actors have worked hard to get their characters right, and it shows. (Karl Urban's rendition of ship's doctor "Bones" McCoy is simply uncanny.) |
I thought this was the film's greatest strength, especially in connecting it to the original.
| The special effects by Industrial Light and Magic are breathtaking. More than in any science fiction movie I can recall, vast size and spacial distance are communicated believably. |
Yeah, it was pretty.
| There's a plot device that may make some orthodox Trekkies angry, but it was a device perfectly in keeping with the range of things that often happened in TOS, the movies, and the other several TV series. I won't go into this device, as it's a spoiler. |
The whole plot was absurd from start to finish. The whole thing was massively contrived. I think it was done well enough to suck people in in the moment so they don't even realize how bafflingly unlikely and just plain dumb so many aspects are. Oh, hell, I'll just spell some of it out.
***SPOILER ALERT - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!***
(Use your mouse to select the text below to see it)
Nero was a completely unconvincing villain. He was nothing more than an insane mad man, and purely insane villains are pretty dull and unrealistic IMO. The whole premise is that he's doing all this crazy shit because he's upset about his planet being destroyed. But he's been blasted far into the past. Um, duh, Nero, the Federation and Spock wanted to save your damn planet, they were just too late. Now you have the perfect opportunity to make sure they don't screw it up the second time. How about just go to Romulus and give them all this hot, modern technology and let them know that in just over a century there will be a supernova that'll destroy the planet until they do something about it, and here's this cool red matter that'll stop it from happening. But no, instead let's have him sit around with his shipmates for 25 years (because apparently 25 years isn't enough time to cool off and think about the stupidity of his chosen plan for 3 seconds) and then manage to destroy the entire planet of Vulcan with nothing more than a single mining ship. And c'mon, I know it has been over a century, but a single mining ship can fight off whole fleets of military ships? *rolls eyes*
But that really isn't the greatest weakness of the film. You are totally right that Star Trek is known for unrealistic plots. But what it is also known for is plays on philosophy and ethics, light but thoughtful social commentary, and compelling characters. To have the villain be a totally plastic mad man is to resort to the typical Hollywood archetype of the totally unredeemable, unsympathetic enemy. They sort of made a half-assed effort to be sympathetic with the whole dead wife and kid story, but that was quite the afterthought and not developed. When Kirk and Spock are happy to kill him in the end, their own bloodlust is done as happy-go-lucky, which is pretty sick in comparison to the original Roddenberry vision. I guess we could call that their callousness of their youth, but nothing in the show gives us that sense. Their own callousness is just funny. In that sense, it is "Starship Troopers."
[Edited to add spoiler tags - Dave W.] |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 05/11/2009 08:07:10 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 08:28:15 [Permalink]
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Vulcan destroyed? Then this must be an "AU" Star Trek then. Because in the original series and TNG, Vulcan was shown to still exist, and of course, there was no mention of it being blown up anywhere.
Wonder how the time-travelling Spock is supposed to fit into this? An "alternate universe" Spock whose planet has been destroyed, or is that somehow supposed to the the "original series" Spock?
Ah who cares?
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 08:33:42 [Permalink]
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Marf:
To have the villain be a totally plastic mad man is to resort to the typical Hollywood archetype of the totally unredeemable, unsympathetic enemy. |
You mean like Khan? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 14:28:34 [Permalink]
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In The Wrath of Khan, Khan is almost precisely the same as Nero, with one notable exception - Khan has a history in an TOS episode entitled "Space Seed," which has a lot of the backstory. We know who Khan is; to rehash that is a waste of time and celluloid. And Khan actually has a legitimate beef with Kirk. He's is simply right that Star Fleet should have checked on his little colony at Ceti Alpha 5.
Nero is completely off the deep end, even to the point of being deliberately oblivious when he told point blank that Romulus is alive and doing well. Now I am not going to try to apologize for the incoherencies in the plot. Marf covers many of them quite well.
I'm not entirely convinced there is a valid comparison between Khan and Nero.
Can you just picture Nero and crew on his ship (Did they ever give us the ship's name?)
"Captain Nero. Spock still hasn't arrived."
"Just give him 15 more minutes. He might show up in the next 15 minutes."
"But captain, that's what you said 15 minutes ago."
"Yes, and it's just as true now as it was then."
"(Grumble-grumble) Yes, Captain."
15 minutes later.
"Captain."
"Fifteen more minutes."
"But, Captain...."
"Be a shame is the little fucker showed up and we weren't here to meet him, don'tcha think?"
"Well, yes, but..."
"Fifteen more minutes."
"Dammit, Captain! I've just spent 1/8 to 1/4th of my lifespan waiting for Spock."
"I realize that."
"And....."
"Fifteen more minutes."
"Argh!"
"Look, fifteen minutes isn't a significant part of your life span."
"No, but 50,000 consecutive strings of fifteen minutes is! I'm not even military. This is a mining vessel. My contract was up 20 years ago. We could go back to Romulus and start a whole new life. We could... we could... why are you looking at me like that?"
"(Raises disintegrator) Just fifteen more minutes."
"Yes, Captain. Fifteen more minutes."
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
--------------------------------------------------
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| Edited by - dglas on 05/11/2009 14:39:55 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 21:09:12 [Permalink]
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Something that absolutely didn't belong in the movie though, is the blatant product placement. That irked me more than anything else.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2009 : 21:12:54 [Permalink]
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Kil wrote: Hey, I'm not writing to defend everything Star Trek which preceded this movie. I'm simply pointing out problems I had with this one.
Honestly, I only really liked about 40% of what was done with the original Star Trek and the movies using that cast. Where I liked Next Generation about 90% of the time. I also mostly hated "Enterprise" for many of the same reasons that I didn't like this movie. The Star Trek franchise has always suffered from a struggle between art and entertainment. And usually entertainment wins out 'cause that sells more tickets. That's okay. I'm still glad it's around. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
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leoofno
Skeptic Friend
USA
346 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2009 : 13:51:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Something that absolutely didn't belong in the movie though, is the blatant product placement. That irked me more than anything else.
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Yes! That really bugged me, and still does.  |
"If you're not terrified, you're not paying attention." Eric Alterman
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Star Trek (2009)
