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@tomic
Administrator
USA
4607 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2009 : 19:27:10 [Permalink]
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I finally got to see this movie and I agree 100% with Marf regarding Nero. He was pretty lackluster. Highlight the following text for spoilers and my feelings regarding the plot:
I didn't buy Nero and his crew sitting there waiting for Spock for 25 long, long years. They would have done something else. Maybe warn Romulus? That'd be my number 1 plan. They wouldn't be worried about changing a future in which their planet is destroyed would they? Maybe they'd rescue their family(ancestors). Maybe they'd give advanced technology to their homeworld. And that's just a few of the things they could have done. Any of which would be better and more productive than waiting for Spock to show up. I mean jeez, what if he didn't appear? How could they be sure he even would? They're minors for chrissakes not scientists. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2009 : 00:22:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by dglas
But where does it go from here, now that everything is gone.
- One Orthodox Trekkie
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(Mild Spoiler Alert - Use mouse to select the text):
There are a few vague snippets of vague dialog between older Spock, who remembers his pre-falling-through-a-black-hole past, (having lived it,) and young Kirk, (while stranded on the frozen planet,) that seem to imply that the time line with respect to the original crew will not be altered despite Vulcan going kaput. This either indicates that there's some sophisticated sequel in the works or more likely, the writers haven't thought it out too well.
That said, I think the movie was fun and entertaining and the actors were terrific in walking a fine line of portraying the original characters without falling into parody. I recommend it highly to any and all SciFi and/or Star Trek fans though for me it was not a movie I need to see over again.*
* i.e. One of those rare films that is so wonderful that you say: "Wow, I've got to get my friends together and see it again right away!" This was fun but not one of those films. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 06:12:02 [Permalink]
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The only plausible explanation for the time-travel even is that it creates an alternative reality. Capten Picard visits a place with thousand years old ruins in a place named exactly like a location destroyed in in latest movie.
One could have speculated that the people who lost their home moved to another planet and named their new home after their ancestral home (including surroundings as well). That would account for those places turning up in Star Trek TOS; they may not necessarily have to be the ancestral places. But Picard returning to thousands of years old archaeological sites whould not make sense. |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 07:39:31 [Permalink]
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I went for the idea of a branching of the time continuum.
And then stopped caring because Uhura removed her top.
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 10:10:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
I went for the idea of a branching of the time continuum.
And then stopped caring because Uhura removed her top.
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Being the Chief Communications Officer what do you think Nyota was trying to say? |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2009 : 15:35:55 [Permalink]
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Who knows?
Maybe something about short skirts not being the best in term of combat readiness?
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Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/01/2009 : 23:24:45 [Permalink]
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Okay, I just saw Star Trek. It's true that there are plot holes, but then, there always are. It's true that Nero wasn't all that interesting, and maybe even a bit dim. And it's true that Roddenberry's vision was mostly lost in this episode. But that too has happened before.
What was right were the relationships that become what they become. We know what they become but to me it was interesting to see them as kids, basically, trying to figure out who they are. Bones and Scotty are already there, pretty much. But Spock and Kirk have a ways to go. I thought there was smartness on the part of the writers to introduce us to characters that we already know, being developed and left unfinished. It made me want to see how Spock and Kirk mature into the relationship that will eventually become complete and essential for the Enterprise to run correctly. We don't often get to see character development from the perspective of already knowing who they are before they do.
All in all I liked the film. And yes, there is plenty of eye-candy.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 09:11:01 [Permalink]
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Finally saw it:
Tons of major plot holes......and I thoroughly enjoyed the film....so there ya go. 
It was entertaining enough to overcome the major storyline hiccups.
I think the casting was fantastic.
I think they should take the entire cast (except for Leonard Nimoy)and make a weekly TV series out of it. It would be a great show. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 09:20:30 [Permalink]
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astropin wrote: | It was entertaining enough to overcome the major storyline hiccups. |
This is probably the most dominant truth about the whole film.
The makers have said that they made this one primarily just entertaining and light on any philosphical stuff because they are trying to re-establish the franchise with a fresh, new, and larger audience. They claim they will make more movies and that futures ones will be a little deeper. So I'm pretty satisfied. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 11:56:32 [Permalink]
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I saw the movie and really liked it. The biggest criticism I keep hearing--that the movie is "dumbed down" compared to past Trek films--seems to me to be largely unfounded. In an attempt to see what the critics were talking about (since I do like "smart" sci-fi), I watched Wrath of Khan, widely considered to be the best Trek film made, and Generations since it was on TV. Holy crap, what turds!
Khan had plot holes you could drive a truck through, dialogue that was an insult to the viewer's intelligence, terrible acting and costumes (Ricardo Montalbán in a mullet wig anyone?), and loads of unintended camp. Not to mention the entire arc of the movie was all about Kirk getting his libido back. His best friend dies, but it's okay because Kirk "feels young again" by the end of the film.
Generations really is too stupid to deserve much comment, but I will say it was beyond moronic to represent being inside the Nexus "bliss cloud"--a place that supposedly engendered a state of human happiness so complete as to cause people to forget every care, concern, and personal attachment in their previous life--as a Dickensian Christmas party. Oh, and it ends up not working on Picard after all, since he basically realizes that it's an illusion and somehow makes the decision to just get up and walk out. Also, DATA is at least as intolerably annoying as Jar Jar Binks.
Abrams' Trek is head-and-shoulders better than than anything I've seen of old Trek. I don't know, maybe deeper themes were explored in the series than in the movies, but I found this movie exciting and engaging while the past films played like bad made-for-television cheese fests with no budget.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 06/03/2009 12:08:34 |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 06/04/2009 : 08:24:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
I saw the movie and really liked it. The biggest criticism I keep hearing--that the movie is "dumbed down" compared to past Trek films--seems to me to be largely unfounded. In an attempt to see what the critics were talking about (since I do like "smart" sci-fi), I watched Wrath of Khan, widely considered to be the best Trek film made, and Generations since it was on TV. Holy crap, what turds!
Khan had plot holes you could drive a truck through, dialogue that was an insult to the viewer's intelligence, terrible acting and costumes (Ricardo Montalbán in a mullet wig anyone?), and loads of unintended camp. Not to mention the entire arc of the movie was all about Kirk getting his libido back. His best friend dies, but it's okay because Kirk "feels young again" by the end of the film.
Generations really is too stupid to deserve much comment, but I will say it was beyond moronic to represent being inside the Nexus "bliss cloud"--a place that supposedly engendered a state of human happiness so complete as to cause people to forget every care, concern, and personal attachment in their previous life--as a Dickensian Christmas party. Oh, and it ends up not working on Picard after all, since he basically realizes that it's an illusion and somehow makes the decision to just get up and walk out. Also, DATA is at least as intolerably annoying as Jar Jar Binks.
Abrams' Trek is head-and-shoulders better than than anything I've seen of old Trek. I don't know, maybe deeper themes were explored in the series than in the movies, but I found this movie exciting and engaging while the past films played like bad made-for-television cheese fests with no budget.
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Oh I don't think there's any question that this one smokes the other movies. I have not been a big fan of the Star Trek movies.....until now.
It is the TV shows that were deeper. I loved the original as a kid but think the "The Next Generation" was the best series. I really didn't care at all for any of the other series.
I still think this new cast would make a fantastic TV series. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 13:16:16 [Permalink]
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| I thought it was a bit weak. The plot was a bit thin for one, all I really got from it was some angry romulans from the future wanted to cause problems. And the whole alternate reality reboot thing is annoying to me. Make a new story or add to an old one, stop rewriting stuff. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2009 : 21:01:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by On fire for Christ
I thought it was a bit weak. The plot was a bit thin for one, all I really got from it was some angry romulans from the future wanted to cause problems. And the whole alternate reality reboot thing is annoying to me. Make a new story or add to an old one, stop rewriting stuff.
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I look at this somewhat differently, though I don't think anything you wrote was wrong. First, from the get-go, Star Trek has always been largely concerned with alternative timelines. So when the new folks decide to use this device to create a situation where they have the greatest possible range of choices for creating stories for the relaunched series, that act itself is essentially very Trek-y.
What will the new Star Trek universe be like? We don't know. All we know for sure is that there will be fewer Romulans and Vulcans in it. The Klingons are still out there somewhere, and still angry at everyone. Everything else about that universe is undiscovered country.
I think the writers had three goals for this critical first episode: Make it exciting, make the main Enterprise characters likable, get some elbow-room for new plots. I think they were successful in all of these, despite the weak plot.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Star Trek (2009)
