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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 08/25/2009 : 08:04:09
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Note: I've placed this OP in book reviews, even though the book is not on the stands yet. In time, there will probably be a lot of discussion about the book, and so, I figure this is the best place for this article and an OP for the book itself.
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Here is an LA Times article, extracted from Richard Dawkins latest book, to be released in September called The Greatest Show on Earth.
Creationists, now they're coming for your children
People who reject the theory of evolution should be placed on a level with Holocaust deniers, argues an author in his controversial new book.
Darkins:
…To repeat, they constitute more than 40 per cent of the American population. The equivalent figure is higher in some countries, lower in others, but 40 per cent is a good average and I shall from time to time refer to the history-deniers as the “40percenters”.
To return to the enlightened bishops and theologians, it would be nice if they'd put a bit more effort into combating the anti-scientific nonsense that they deplore. All too many preachers, while agreeing that evolution is true and Adam and Eve never existed, will then blithely go into the pulpit and make some moral or theological point about Adam and Eve in their sermons without once mentioning that, of course, Adam and Eve never actually existed! If challenged, they will protest that they intended a purely “symbolic” meaning, perhaps something to do with “original sin”, or the virtues of innocence. They may add witheringly that, obviously, nobody would be so foolish as to take their words literally. But do their congregations know that? How is the person in the pew, or on the prayer-mat, supposed to know which bits of scripture to take literally, which symbolically? Is it really so easy for an uneducated churchgoer to guess? In all too many cases the answer is clearly no, and anybody could be forgiven for feeling confused.. |
I am reminded of a friend of mine who was a Methodist Minister. Among other things he did, being something of a rebel minister, he was kind of fired (offered to be relocated to a desert church, far away from his kids) after referring to the the biblical account of creation as a myth, during a sermon. Angry letters from some of his more fundamentalist parishioners to the powers that be was the likely cause of his transfer. The church caved. Last I heard, he was teaching at a high school.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 08:34:58 [Permalink]
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| Sign me up! |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 09:56:29 [Permalink]
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| Bringing out the big rhetorical guns, and with verbal eloquence. I really enjoyed reading this just because it is written so beautifully and with such verve. I doubt any typical "history denier"/"40percenter" is literate and educated enough to read it and understand what they are reading, but that doesn't matter since he seems to be more addressing their more educated leaders who, wittingly or unwittingly, promote false beliefs in their less-than-intellectual congregants. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 08/25/2009 : 10:45:30 [Permalink]
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Its been on my pre-order list at amazon since it had a listing.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 09:46:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
Bringing out the big rhetorical guns, and with verbal eloquence. I really enjoyed reading this just because it is written so beautifully and with such verve. I doubt any typical "history denier"/"40percenter" is literate and educated enough to read it and understand what they are reading, but that doesn't matter since he seems to be more addressing their more educated leaders who, wittingly or unwittingly, promote false beliefs in their less-than-intellectual congregants.
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I think it's more a matter of intellectual laziness than an actual lack of ability......for both the educators and the congregants.
The more I look around the more I realize that most people simply don't care. Their not truly dumb, just lazy. They go to church, they hear that when they die they will go someplace better.....so it's all good and why bother at looking into anything any deeper. Why search for the truth if the truth probably won't be so comforting.  |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 10:20:39 [Permalink]
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| Yep, reality may cause depression, as your sig states...Though I have issues with your definition of athiesm, there are numerous woo practitioners who qualify as atheists and we therefore are hardly universally rational. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2009 : 10:29:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Yep, reality may cause depression, as your sig states...Though I have issues with your definition of athiesm, there are numerous woo practitioners who qualify as atheists and we therefore are hardly universally rational.
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Didn't realize anything in my sig indicated that reality may cause depression. (Unless cold = depressing)
Your right about my definition for Atheism.....it's more about how I got there. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 13:12:48 [Permalink]
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Finally sitting down with this book. Anyone else get and read it yet?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/02/2009 : 13:34:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Finally sitting down with this book. Anyone else get and read it yet?
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I'd had it preordered through Amazon, and got it about a week or two ago. As I'm trying to finish off a Harry Turtledove book before it's overdue at the library, I haven't yet done more than thumb through The Greatest Show. But I can already see it's much different from The God Delusion, as it has a great deal of wonderful photos and illustrations.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 02:11:53 [Permalink]
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I went to hear Dawkins give his book talk at the First Congregational Church of Berkeley this evening.
I'd bought two tickets, so my daughter could attend with me. These tickets were mailed to me as two largish cardboard tickets and a similar-looking receipt that summed up the price ($12 each). I'd planned to meet my daughter at her home in San Leandro at 4:30 PM, about half-way from here to the Peoples Republic of Berkeley. My daughter, however, called to tell me that she couldn't get off work that early, so we planned to meet at her home at 6:30 instead. Before leaving my apartment, I put the two tickets in my copy of The Greatest Show on Earth, grabbed my helmet and GPS and got onto my scooter. The traffic was stop-and-go all the way to San Leandro.
Once I got to my daughter's, it was already almost 7 PM, and she had just driven in. I got in the car with her, and we started driving. She asked me for the address, so I passed her the tickets. When she read aloud "Decoto Road" (my street), I immediately had a all-too-familiar sinking feeling. It seems I'd brought along only one ticket, plus the receipt "ticket"! After numerous apologies from me, we determined there wasn't time to go back to Union City to fetch the missing ticket from my apartment. She insisted that she was tired, and wanted me to go on alone. Reluctantly, and feeling like the ass I was, I did.
I arrived at the church 15 minutes after the scheduled 7:30 PM start time. As I walked through the door into the church, a loud cheer and applause arose. I smiled appreciatively and nodded. Just as I was about to wave and bow to the throng packing the big church, I discovered that, alas, this demonstration of affection was not intended for me. (Moonscape News may be world famous, but my visage, unfortunately, is less known.) Dawkins, it seems, had just arrived at the podium.
Dawkins simply read from several chapters of The Greatest Show on Earth. But he's a remarkably eloquent and humorously sparkling speaker. His eyes, as I'd suspected, actually twinkle. He skilfully played the house, and his writing itself was lyrical and profound. If you've watched Richard Dawkins on any of the fine RDF hi-def videos, you saw the same Dawkins I did, except from much closer up.
Afterward, Dawkins (I call him "Dick," now) took questions from the huge number of people lined up at a mic in an aisle. Not one questioner was a Creationist, though a couple were long-winded bores, and one mentioned some woo notion of grand 20,000 or so year cycles in human history or something of the sort. (Dick gently replied that there's probably little documentation one way or the other for that.)
I got Dick's signature in my copy of his book afterward and spoke a few words of thanks to him (not forgetting to mention Skeptic Friends Network, which mention won his smile and nod). I added his handshake to my collection. My handshake collection previously included those of JFK, Martin Luther King, Governor Edmond G. "Pat" Brown, and atheists Daniel Dennett and Christopher Hitchens -- all of them lovingly preserved in gray matter. (I now have just one of the New Atheist "Four Horseman" to go, Sam Harris.)
I still haven't started reading Dick's new book, but from what he read from it, it's a humdinger.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/08/2009 02:16:48 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 08:35:26 [Permalink]
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| Mooner, if it's any consolation, I would have applauded for you. And Dawkins, of course. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/08/2009 : 09:42:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Mooner, if it's any consolation, I would have applauded for you. And Dawkins, of course.
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Thank you. I needed that. Dick gets all the glory, and can afford to share it.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2009 : 17:53:26 [Permalink]
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| I'm still reading TGSoE. However a video of the Dawkins' talk that I attended in Berkeley is now online. (I can't get it to run, but maybe you can?) |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 10/27/2009 17:55:38 |
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Bob Lloyd
Skeptic Friend
Spain
59 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2009 : 09:56:56 [Permalink]
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One of the nicest bits of this book is his discussion towards the end of the reason nature lacks compassion. Religious folks are often troubled by the sheer amount of suffering in nature and Dawkins discusses why gazelles for example, don't have an emergency anaesthetic just before they get grabbed by a lion. If they are not going to be able to pass on the gene for it, it has no evolutionary advantage. Just that simple explanation brings home just how blind evolution is, having no purpose, no end point in mind.
The other really nice part that comes to mind is his description of the laryngeal nerve as an example of unintelligent design. Since the nerve comes from the brain, loops under the aorta, then goes back up to the throat, it's a daft detour which Dawkins points out, costs the giraffe around 15 foot! That together with the human retina with blood vessels covering the light-sensitive portion just conveys the sheer accidental nature of mutations.
Yet another really good aspect of the book is how Dawkins shows the difference between a story and a theory, the latter having not just descriptive value but also explanatory and predictive aspects as well.
Of course creationists and history-deniers won't read it, but the people they talk to might, and that's where the potential is. |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2009 : 10:57:28 [Permalink]
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| I'm reading this book now.... |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/08/2010 : 15:03:14 [Permalink]
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Ok, I finally managed to sit down and read this thing.
It is a good read, very entertaining. The information is all, to the best of my knowledge, accurate and fully supported by research and evidence.
A good book but: it is never going to convince a single denier(I'm not sure it was meant too, but it seems to me he should have tried to aim it that way a little). It seems to have been written with a layperson audience in mind, with enough stuff added in to keep the interest of informed readers as well. Anyone reading it, short of biology professors, will probably learn something new.
My other complaint is that Dawkins' writing style in this book is too meandering. He drags you all over the map to make a single point, often a point he could have made with a single concise page I think.
To summarize: Very entertaining, informative, and well written. Accessible language that most readers will be able to easily grasp. It wanders around a bit (which may cause some to lose interest) and it seems unlikely to me that any denier will be convinced. If his real target audience was the truly uninformed/confused, then he hits the mark. You can't walk away from this book without learning something, and if you were one of those genuinely uninformed people you are probably going to be convinced of the evidence by the time you finish.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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The Greatest Show on Earth
