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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 09/02/2009 : 16:42:35 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hal
I've never understood the impulse to "pre-screen" the material that kids are going to be exposed to in school. My kids have encountered viewpoints and arguments wildly different to my own since kindergarten. (I'm a liberal atheist in a conservative bible-belt community, and my kids have all been through Catholic schools. My fundamentalist family has kept my kids supplied with fundy-approved anti-science literature.) It's always seemed to me that I'd want them to be around people with different backgrounds, experiences, and world-views than what they're exposed to at home. They all seem pretty self-assured, independent, and open-minded to me. They don't always agree with me on every issue, but they do seem to respect me, and I certainly respect their ability to receive information critically and form their own opinions.
To the point mentioned above, I'd be perfectly fine if Dick Cheney were to speak at my kid's school -- Hell, I'd be excited about it. Personally, I think he's a murderous, lying sack of shit, but I wouldn't say that to my kids. I'd want to get their impressions first.
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Why do you assume my children are not like yours? I want my kids to learn all kinds of viewpoints, I just want to know what views they are being exposed to. I think it is only being a responsible parent. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 17:15:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Hal
I've never understood the impulse to "pre-screen" the material that kids are going to be exposed to in school. My kids have encountered viewpoints and arguments wildly different to my own since kindergarten. (I'm a liberal atheist in a conservative bible-belt community, and my kids have all been through Catholic schools. My fundamentalist family has kept my kids supplied with fundy-approved anti-science literature.) It's always seemed to me that I'd want them to be around people with different backgrounds, experiences, and world-views than what they're exposed to at home. They all seem pretty self-assured, independent, and open-minded to me. They don't always agree with me on every issue, but they do seem to respect me, and I certainly respect their ability to receive information critically and form their own opinions.
To the point mentioned above, I'd be perfectly fine if Dick Cheney were to speak at my kid's school -- Hell, I'd be excited about it. Personally, I think he's a murderous, lying sack of shit, but I wouldn't say that to my kids. I'd want to get their impressions first.
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Why do you assume my children are not like yours? I want my kids to learn all kinds of viewpoints, I just want to know what views they are being exposed to. I think it is only being a responsible parent.
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I'm not assuming anything. I'm pretty sure there's as many valid ways to raise children as there are parents. I'm only saying that I've never felt the need to pre-screen the "views they are being exposed to." If that makes me irresponsible, so be it, but it seems to work for my family. |
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 18:01:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
All I want is to know what he is going to say. Why am I some kind of wing nut for that? |
Your posts here suggest that you're very much worried about what he's going to say, as if it might include something that you'll have trouble talking your kids out of afterward.| He's the "transparent president" right? |
Transparency in government is about telling people what you're doing and why, not about handing out transcripts of speeches before they're given.
Besides, if he just publishes the speech, then what's the point of it being a speech? And so far as I know, major speeches get edited and re-edited right up until they're delivered, and even then the speaker is free to go off the page and ad-lib. Think of the lunacy which would ensue from the wingnuts if one of Obama's speeches were published a week before he made it, only to find that, due to intervening events, 90% of it were changed around. "He said he was going to say ooga-booga, but instead he said oinky-boinky. Is this a man we can trust?" |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 18:10:25 [Permalink]
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I'm sure the president plans to do mind tricks on the nations children. That's what he does. Mind tricks.
God this is a silly thread... Sorry Rob, but I seem to recall a time when you had more sense than to wonder if there might be anything Obama has to say to your kids that you might not like. He is the president you know. Of all the people. Do you actually think he would say anything even slightly controversial when aiming his talk at children?
No offense, but hey! Get a grip!!! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 18:42:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
All I want is to know what he is going to say. Why am I some kind of wing nut for that? |
Well, I don't think you're a wingnut. If I did, I wouldn't be pleading with you to put things in perspective, as that would be a waste of time. But you certainly get some of your ideas and fears from real wingnuts.
I'm sure some wingnuts become such in a flash of "insight," getting their delusion as if they'd fallen senseless on the road to Damascus. But most of them probably became loonies gradually, simply by listening to the repeated nonsense of fearmongers, and slowly, progressively becoming more afraid and disinformed, until the point that they themselves began to spout the same kind of fearful, even hateful talk.
I'm afraid that you may be on the edge of that, Robb, but it's not too late to get your head back where it's been in a lot of discussions here where you've often used considerable reason in you arguments.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 18:55:50 [Permalink]
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Robb.... You're posts in the last year have a strange correspondence with the rising level of hysteria from the right-wing media.
Why don't you just go ahead and tell us exactly what you don't want your children to hear from Obama? What is it you think he is going to say, in one freaking speech, that has you so worried?
What could anyone say in 30 minutes to invoke such concern from you? Do you think he is going to use his liberal commie fascist socialist mind control powers on your children and turn them into little hitlers who will mindlessly support universal healthcare?
I mean, seriously man, you need to take a time out.
Its not like he is some kidfucking catholic rapist or some child molesting Republican congressman, and it isn't like he is going to be physically present in their classrooms, so no worries about any of that black rubbing off on your kids...
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Simon
SFN Regular
USA
1992 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 20:27:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
I'm sure the president plans to do mind tricks on the nations children. That's what he does. Mind tricks. |
"These are not the Kenyan birth certificates you are loking for..." |
Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
Carl Sagan - 1996 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2009 : 20:36:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Simon
Originally posted by Kil
I'm sure the president plans to do mind tricks on the nations children. That's what he does. Mind tricks. |
"These are not the Kenyan birth certificates you are loking for..."
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Ha!!! |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 00:26:27 [Permalink]
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The really hilarious part of this is that Obama has already explained what the content of his speech is going to be. The wingnuts won't let that stop them from making up insane lies though!
Robb, really man, I'm arguing for all I'm worth in another thread that one of the subsets of people in this country (that you belong too) is not plagued with stupidity. This isn't helping me make my point!
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2009 : 03:17:08 [Permalink]
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And out come the out-patients!
Robb, you're going to have to work a lot harder to compete with these losers. You might be conservative enough, but you're a little short on stupid & crazy....
Can they get much crazier than this? Yes they can! Every day brings another new high on the wacky scale, as rightwingers continue to sound the alarm about our new National Socialist president:
Parents across the country are rebelling against plans by President Barack Obama to speak directly to their children through the classrooms of the nation's public schools without their presence, participation and approval.
The plans announced by Obama also have been cited as raising the specter of the Civilian National Security Force, to which he's referred several times since his election campaign began, but never fully explained.
"He's recruiting his civilian army. His 'Hitler' youth brigade," wrote one participant in a forum at Free Republic.
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Please, my friend, do try harder. The Freepers are too candy-assed to come in here and I need an imbecile to gnaw on. I've been banned from over there.
No? Oh well. Then I guess we can only hope one or more of them grows some spine.
Y'see, these clowns don't give a rat's ass about Obama's speech beyond the excuse to drool idiocy. Further, I rather doubt they care all that much about their offspring's education. In fact, I'm beginning to think that they'd prefer they didn't get one so as to prove the saying: "Like father, like son." and perpetuate their ignorance forever.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 04:52:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
...and it isn't like he is going to be physically present in their classrooms, so no worries about any of that black rubbing off on your kids...
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Really? Why are you calling me a racist? Grow up. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 06:21:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
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why be like the left and make the opposition look bad and insult them instead of just refuting what they say? Arent skeptics better than that?
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Michelle Malkin is not worthy of refuting. She is just another worthless hack like Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Reilly/Beck.
Show me someone on the ultra right who can actually have a civilized discussion/debate without resorting to the standard sub-standard methods they employ.
Malkin and here ilk are worthy of nothing except scorn and derision. And that the ultra right embraces these people as their mouth pieces says a lot about them, and nothing positive. |
by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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| Edited by - pleco on 09/03/2009 06:24:12 |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 06:33:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
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why be like the left and make the opposition look bad and insult them instead of just refuting what they say? Arent skeptics better than that?
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Michelle Malkin is not worthy of refuting. She is just another worthless hack like Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Reilly/Beck.
Show me someone on the ultra right who can actually have a civilized discussion/debate without resorting to the standard sub-standard methods they employ.
Malkin and here ilk are worthy of nothing except scorn and derision. And that the ultra right embraces these people as their mouth pieces says a lot about them, and nothing positive.
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typical left wing crap. Call people names because they disagree with your side. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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pleco
SFN Addict
USA
2998 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 06:46:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
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why be like the left and make the opposition look bad and insult them instead of just refuting what they say? Arent skeptics better than that?
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Michelle Malkin is not worthy of refuting. She is just another worthless hack like Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Reilly/Beck.
Show me someone on the ultra right who can actually have a civilized discussion/debate without resorting to the standard sub-standard methods they employ.
Malkin and here ilk are worthy of nothing except scorn and derision. And that the ultra right embraces these people as their mouth pieces says a lot about them, and nothing positive.
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typical left wing crap. Call people names because they disagree with your side.
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I noted you did not say which right winger who can debate like a civilized human I could look for.
Fuck Malkin, and fuck anyone who takes her and the others I mentioned seriously. The mouth breathing knuckle draggers who lap their shit up like ambrosia are the real threat to this country.
I'm sick and tired of being labeled as a unpatriotic, appeaser, socialist, fascist, communist, and every other name in the book because I a) am not a christian and b) not a social conservative. Talk about calling names...
FWIW, I think Olbermann and Maddow are pretty much as bad as their right wing counterparts. And Matthews is hack also.
But now I wonder why you are all up in arms because I'm making fun of these worthless pundits for the far right. So which one are you embracing? Must have hit pretty close to home, eh?
Pathetic...
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by Filthy
The neo-con methane machine will soon be running at full fart. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 07:15:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by pleco
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why be like the left and make the opposition look bad and insult them instead of just refuting what they say? Arent skeptics better than that?
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Michelle Malkin is not worthy of refuting. She is just another worthless hack like Coulter/Limbaugh/Hannity/O'Reilly/Beck.
Show me someone on the ultra right who can actually have a civilized discussion/debate without resorting to the standard sub-standard methods they employ.
Malkin and here ilk are worthy of nothing except scorn and derision. And that the ultra right embraces these people as their mouth pieces says a lot about them, and nothing positive.
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typical left wing crap. Call people names because they disagree with your side.
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If they honestly disagreed, I would have no problem with it beyond polite argument. However, their "disagreement" is laced with slander, innuendo and outright lies. They perform for an audience; they are the vilest whores of a media that sways with the political winds and is more concerned with ratings and readership than truth, and therefore is itself a collection of cheap sluts willing to raise their ass' for anything that might increase their bottom lines.
They do, however, have a certain amusement value.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Obama Speech to Schoolchildren
