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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2009 : 15:07:47
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Do you think it is time to stop the democrate and republican fued? It is progressives that are destroying the country. People like Senator Lieberman is even trying to sound the alarm. The left has bad ideas he progressives have dangerous idea's. Another "Czar" that wants to enforce progressive radio on the airwaves.
Mark Loyd's name is on this and this is in the introduction:
This analysis suggests that any effort to encourage more responsive and balanced radio programming will first require steps to increase localism and diversify radio station ownership to better meet local and community needs. We suggest three ways to accomplish this:
Restore local and national caps on the ownership of commercial radio stations. (Government control over private companies)
Ensure greater local accountability over radio licensing. (Huh?)
Require commercial owners who fail to abide by enforceable public interest obligations to pay a fee to support public broadcasting. (Extort money to broadcast companies that will not air thier ideology, They call this encouragement oin the first paragraph)
What business is it of the governments to regulate free speech?
Ok start the insults.
BTW He's a supporter of Hugo Chavez as well.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 17:43:51 [Permalink]
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Robb.....
| Do you think it is time to stop the democrate and republican fued? |
It may be time, but it's never gonna happen. There's far too much money, vested interest, political power, career security, carefully constructed public image, and the simple love of combat invested in the two-party system to allow for any diminishment of the "culture wars" or a rapproachment of liberal and conservative differences.
War, including culture wars, makes money, benefits the promulgators (usually the victors), and will be with us as long as we remain homo sapiens. It has ever been so, it is part and parcel of the American way of life, and it's never gonna change. At least not in the present epoch. It's in our jeans!!
With respect to the Radio Talk Show debate, I feel that it is high time that we got a statistically valid study (A POLL) that gave solid insight into why extreme conservatism dominates Talk Radio. Would left-wing nutter commentators (analagous to Limbaugh and Beck on the right) draw similar ratings to what the right-wing loonies audience (DITTOheads) generate today?
I think that if we really understood all the reasons that both Left and Right Poloonies do and don't listen to Talk Radio, we could figure out a reasonable wording of and application of the Fairness Doctrine.
Are extreme right wing conservatives actually much more suseptible to outrageous rhetoric and irresponsible bloviation than insane lefty liberals like me? I really don't know! What do you think?
If Left-wing Liberal Radio Talk cannot draw sufficient listeners to pay the bills and gather a flock, given a level playing field then so be it. We liberals better do our propagandizing on other media.
But then you have the amazing ratings of FOX News, and folks like Bill O'Reilly, Hannity and Beck.
And this is fucking television!
Of course, the broadcast networks ratings dwarf cable, but the question still remains -- who watches (and genuflects while watching) FOX news? What are the demographics? What are the political affiliations? What are the educational levels and the IQ scores? Ditto for MSNBC, "Liberal" television? Why can't Olbermann even get close to O'Reilly's ratings. Same time slot, pretty much same availability (although I recently noticed while traveling through the country that many hotels and motels dont offer MSNBC in their room TV selections. All have CNN and FOX news.)
What do you think the story is with Talk Radio, Robb?
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2009 : 18:05:49 [Permalink]
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So, Robb, Mark Lloyd is another (incidentally black) man that the frothing, racist paranoid Glenn Beck doesn't like, eh? You get all your talking points from these nutcases, eh?
BTW, Lloyd's not exactly a "czar" of anything, including the FCC. According to Wiki, he's "Associate General Counsel and Chief Diversity Officer at the Federal Communications Commission." Not the FCC's top officer, who is Chairman Genachowski.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2009 : 18:53:55 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Do you think it is time to stop the democrate and republican fued? |
Long time past. Why are you continuing it?| ...Restore local and national caps on the ownership of commercial radio stations. (Government control over private companies) |
Happens all the time. Congress is Constitutionally empowered to regulate interstate commerce.| Ensure greater local accountability over radio licensing. (Huh?) |
Shouldn't localities have some control over the airwaves, or should it only be the Feds?| Require commercial owners who fail to abide by enforceable public interest obligations to pay a fee to support public broadcasting. (Extort money to broadcast companies that will not air thier ideology, They call this encouragement oin the first paragraph) |
So a return to the Fairness Doctrine is something else you reject.| What business is it of the governments to regulate free speech? |
Yeah! Why have laws against inciting riots? What business is it of governments to judiciate cases of slander or libel? How could any reasonable person think it's okay for some official to tell me that I can't put up a huge, blinking, neon sign on my roof which reads DIP ME IN HONEY AND THROW ME TO THE LESBIANS? What business is any of this to our duly elected and appointed representative government?
Hey, Robb, without looking it up, which one of these is the motto of the United States of America?A. Pro se quisque
B. E pluribus unum |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2009 : 20:35:15 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by RobbPeople like Senator Lieberman is even trying to sound the alarm. |
I don't follow American politics much, but I wouldn't be invoking Lieberman's name, I think he's shown that he'll whore himself around for anyone and anything. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2009 : 22:22:16 [Permalink]
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Hey Robb.......!!
Talk to me. I responded to your question. I didn't insult or demean you. I offered some commentary and asked your opinion. In all seriousness!
I'm not fucking with your mind, I really would like you to tell me your honest opinion about what is going on in Talk Radio. It's a question that has bothered me for some time and I would like an honest right wing opinion on the whole subject -- Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, used-to-be O'Reilly --- all of them, Talk Radio in general, FOX News, MSNBC, why doesn't Left Wing Talk Radio work, why does FOX News bulldoze MSNBC in ratings, what is your view of the Fairness Doctrine?
You opened this thread, how about a response? |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 09/06/2009 : 03:46:22 [Permalink]
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In fact, I can come up with better ways to piss my life away than listening to or viewing some lying, right-wing motor-mouth, whom I would probably not allow on my property, even if the rat-bastard walked on water to get there. I keep a S&W handy for just that sort of thing. From reading some of their transcripts, I find them worthy of nothing but contempt. And the lefties can't tell me anything that I don't all ready know, so fuck 'em all!
Joe Lieberman was and remains a scumbag, interested only in his grip on office and swaying with the political winds like long-johns on a clothesline. Gore was an idiot to pick him for VP, and that ain't hindsight -- 'nuff said.
What is your problem with sensible regulation, Robb? Why do you conservatives always go for what is the worst option for the general public and by extension, the country? The washed-up actor, Reagan, began the deregulation lunacy and it continued all but unchecked through Bush the Buffoon, and look at where the country, and indeed the world, is today. Do you really trust the corporations to regulate themselves?
The screws need to be re-tightened, ol' buddy.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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| Edited by - filthy on 09/06/2009 04:06:44 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 12:31:12 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
My question is not why don't people with reasonably well organized neurological systems like you and me listen to Limbaugh and Company; it is why isn't there an audience for the liberal viewpoint on Talk Radio?
Air America has never really been able to support itself, despite excellent efforts by Al Franken and Rachel Maddow. Even with a reinstated Fairness Doctrine, which I robustly support, there is little evidence that there is a significant audience for Liberal Talk Radio, that form of political communication just doesn't seem to work for liberals.
It's easy to presume that liberals are simply too intellectual and sophisticated for the kind of crap that Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity, etc. vomit daily; and of course that's true enough. But that's not what I mean. Rachel Maddow is a sensible, well spoken left wing spokeswoman; Franken did a great job when he was on the air (and he DID get elected), but Air America has been a commercial and audience ratings failure. Their commentators are not raving lunatics like Limbaugh and Glenn Beck. Why doesn't the Liberal voice have an audience?
Why does FOX News, a travesty on the concept of News reportage, a pure and simple propanganda arm of Republican Politics; why does it have vastly more viewers than MSNBC, obviously liberal, or CNN, a more middle-ground cable news source?
Why don't people listen to Liberal Radio/TV while people flock to Conservative Radio/TV? --- even though a strongly Liberal political candidate (Obama) was elected by a reasonable majority of the electorate?
I have asked Robb this question several times, but he seems to be afraid to respond because he fears attack -- even though he opened this thread. I don't want to attack him, I want to hear an admitted Conservative explain the phenomonen, even if it's the party-line "we're right and you're wrong" simplicity. Maybe these conservative nutcases understand the psychology of political manipulation better than we liberals do!
I would also like to hear from any thinker on this forum who has ideas as to why Liberal Talk Radio cannot seem to support itself in the Radio Marketplace without Government regulation.
Why does the raging propaganda of Right Wingnut Radio and the unvarying Republican party-line rhetoric of FOX News succeed so remarkably?
I think you all know that I am not a conservative, quite the opposite; many people I know think I'm a bat-shit crazy old style bomb throwing Ultra Liberal. That's pretty true today. But this Talk Radio thing bothers me, and nobody seems to write or talk about it sensibly. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 14:36:43 [Permalink]
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This isn't an answer, but I think that liberals are just not nasty enough, and are too attached to fact and accuracy. They need me to write some scripts... 
This phenomena actually dates back to the McCarthy hearings, and maybe even to the Bolshevik revolution, when the Czars were wiped out, never to return, and the wealth of Russia went to a large, corrupt clique that produced the likes of Josef Stalin, instead of those who needed it. Predictable, really.
Anyhow, as I recall, Ronald Reagan was a scumbag snitch for McCarthy as was Disney, and everything was highly publicized in the news reels and newspapers, and fledgling TV. Since then, the left has always been falsely associated with communism, and we have long been taught to fear the communists, I don't know why. After all, every conflict that we got into with them, we did so voluntarily.
There really is no answer, buck, no solution -- at least none within the law. But on a slightly brighter note, they seem to be starting to eat themselves. I'd offer to supply the mustard, but they are not worth even that.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 15:45:08 [Permalink]
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| Robb starts the thread then drops out. There really isn't much of a mystery. He's a ditto head. They speak he agrees. As long as he is in a conversation where everyone agrees with him, he can speak his mind without threat. When he messes up and speaks up in a place where he is actually asked to discuss just what and why his position is, he is unable, like now. Unless he's ill or his computer's out and can't respond, right now. SS |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2009 : 16:50:06 [Permalink]
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bngbuck,
The reason liberal talk radio is unpopular can be summarized in one short sentence I think: That shit is fucking boring!
Conseravite talk radio has adopted the Howard Stern model, say something randomly insane that will piss somebody off every 15 minutes, of shock tactics. Their audience is so large because they attract the Jerry Springer audience. Same for cable "news" channels.
Liberal talk radio that used the same tactics of red faced crazy rants not grounded in any reality other than the host's delusion might get ratings.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2009 : 00:13:27 [Permalink]
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Dude.....
| That shit (liberal Talk Radio) is fucking boring!.....say something randomly insane that will piss somebody off every 15 minutes, of shock tactics. Their audience is so large because they attract the Jerry Springer audience. Same for cable "news" channels. |
Fair enough, Dude but let's examine that premise. If it is true you would think that a majority of any audience listening to the batshit crazy bellowing of Limbaugh or the absolute insanity of Glenn Beck would be doing it for the entertainment value.
But there is considerable evidence -- both in the polls and in actual commentary by right wing people interviewed on TV, those shouting in the "Town Hall Meetings", and in statements by Republican congressmen and Party leaders; that much of this bullshit dispensed by Rant Radio and FAUX News is actually accepted by and incorporated into the conservative voter's belief and value systems. It becomes part and parcel of their political philosophy! They vote the way they do because of what they are told by Rush, and Sean and O'Reilly! Entertainment becomes gospel and is acted upon as such! God knows most of them understand Gospel!
Look at the "birther" nuts. If you believe what many of the polls show, millions of people in this country actually believe that Obama is a foreign national and should be removed from the presidency because he is not an American citizen. Or that "death panels" are going to be established by the Obama administration to euthanize senior citizens. Or that Obama must not be allowed to speak words of encouragement to schoolchildren because he will "indoctrinate" them into socialism.
This pure shit, and much more, is pumped out daily by many sites on the gigantic Clear Channel Communications Network, The Salem Radio Network, and many other smaller groups and independent stations. And then there is FOX News --- which is the ONLY news that millions of Americans get from television -- many millions more than those watching the equally entertaining liberal MSNBC!| Liberal talk radio that used the same tactics of red faced crazy rants not grounded in any reality other than the host's delusion might get ratings. |
It would seem that way, but if so, why doesn't the Democratic political machine try it in a big way? Sure, it's immoral, scheming and manipulative; but if it works why not use the enemy's weapons against him rather than losing elections?
Why not put highly entertaining masters of outrage like Lewis Black, or Chris Rock, or even Jon Stewart on Liberal talk radio and MSNBC? I know, they make too much money doing their comedy shows to be interested in a radio program or even a TV anchor/opinion show like Olbermann's. And that's the point - they would not be paid enough (by advertisers) to make it worth their while! Yet Limbaugh undoubtedly makes more than any of those I mentioned or even all of them put together!
The money could be found from the Party treasury or George Soros, but if one or more of such first-rate outrageous comics built a field of political left-wing comedy, would they (the audience) come? Like they come to kiss the feet of Limbaugh or O'Reilly? Maybe smart people don't like to be lied to about something as important as politics! Maybe Republicans are too dumb to know when they are being lied to!
Does the cerebral Bill Maher earn anything close to what the psychopathic Glenn Beck does?
Why didn't the very funny Al Franken make Air America work? Yet was able to get himself elected to the Senate in a very close race?
From Wiki| Pew researchers found in 2004 that 17% of the public regularly listens to talk radio. This audience is mostly male, middle-aged and conservative. Among those who regularly listen to talk radio, 41% are Republican and 28% are Democrats. Furthermore, 45% describe themselves as conservatives, compared with 18% who say they are liberal. |
Could it be that Conservatives and, yes, Republicans taken as a whole are DUMBER than Liberal Democrats? That they just don't have the mental machinery to understand that they are being flummoxed by a bunch of lying "entertainers" that are actually highly paid agents of major corporate (and religious) interests?
Now I don't mean that Limbaugh and Beck and Laura Ingraham and O'Reilly et al are stupid people! No, they're smart enough to have figured out a racket that pays them millions and also services their bloated egos better than a thousand dollar whore services a rich John! There's money and power beyond your dreams in demogoguery!!
But the pitiful sheep who genuflect to these rabble-rousers may well be more intellectually challenged than their liberal counterparts in the electorate! Just like Christians might be dumber than atheists!
Give me an argument to the contrary! Anyone?
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2009 : 05:49:32 [Permalink]
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| But the pitiful sheep who genuflect to these rabble-rousers may well be more intellectually challenged than their liberal counterparts in the electorate! Just like Christians might be dumber than atheists! |
I tend to agree with Dude on this one, and here's why:
I clicked on this thread to read it because from the subject title I knew it was going to be merely some regurgitated talking point from some conservative pundit. I knew this because all of the sudden I keep having idiots I know express paranoia about all these "czars" that Obama is appointing.
I recently re-connected online with someone I knew in high school. I remember from then that the guy was never particularly intelligent. He was just this sort of dopey guy who was extraordinarily brilliant at representational drawing (he's now a very successful wildlife illustrator.) I found out that currently the guy is a full blown wingnut. Over a handful of personal messages, he engaged me in a variety of political topics and even though he never references any particular pundits (never cited ANY of his references for that matter!) it was painfully obvious that he was repeating other people's arguments. I could tell because he'd do things like quote some speech or essay and interpret what was quoted in the worst way. I'd then go look up and read the original speech or essay and point out that obviously in context it didn't mean what he claimed it meant. Eventually he started throwing out words such as: "eugenics", "socialism", "communism", and "Marxism", and of course Nazis and Hitler. And every time he mentioned these things, it was clear that they were just stand-ins for "evil" and that he either didn't understand what the concepts actually are or what sort of comparison he was making. I'd point all these fallacies to him, and the more I did, the more he resorted to emotional appeals and yet more quote mining. I don't think he really understood my critique of his arguments. Instead he seems to think we merely have a difference of political opinion.
There are "liberal counterparts" to the conservatives sheep who are taking all their talking points and "analysis" from pundits, but liberal nutjobs aren't taken seriously by the party. Hell, most of those I've met are college students going through a phase where they develop radical opinions because it is the first time in their lives that they are exposed to certain information and ideas. But when they get a little more life experience and develop some wisdom, they tend to shed the most extreme positions and develop more sophisticated views. The conservative wingnuts are scarier because they actually have some real political influence. I suppose this happened because some time ago leaders in the Republican party decided to sell its soul for votes.
I think a lot of the most intelligent conservatives have switched to the Democratic Party because there they can have more influence, and I think that accounts for a lot of the disorganization and lack of clear identity and vision for the Democratic Party. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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| Edited by - marfknox on 09/07/2009 05:50:15 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/07/2009 : 10:54:16 [Permalink]
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bng,
I didn't say they listen only for entertainment. It is entertainment that also agrees with their personal bias.
If liberal talk radio were entertaining in addition to it's liberal bias, then people would listen. Honestly, did you ever listen to Al Franken's Air America show? He was boring.
As for your repeated assertion that conservatives and the religious right wingnuts are less intelligent than liberals.... I have provided the reasons why I disagree in other threads. Let me leave you this to contemplate: If liberals are more intelligent than conservatives why is is such a challenge to compete with them in the media-spin game? Why do they appear so much more organized and ready with their talking points than liberals? Why can't democrats present a coherent front line and communicate the specifics of the proposed healthcare legislation in a way that dispels the confusion? Why are conservative apparently winning this politically?
Don't get me wrong, I think the wingnuts are fucking idiots. I just don't agree that the liberals are smarter.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 02:26:31 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by marfknoxI clicked on this thread to read it because from the subject title I knew it was going to be merely some regurgitated talking point from some conservative pundit. I knew this because all of the sudden I keep having idiots I know express paranoia about all these "czars" that Obama is appointing. |
Is the suggestion that it erodes congressional power really a paranoid idea? Even Robert C. Byrd, the longstanding Democratic senator, sent a letter to Obama about it. While I am not at all a fan of Byrd, I do give him credit for being a legitimate opponent of concentration of power in the executive branch (regardless of who the executive happens to be when an issue arises).
He wrote that he fears some of these appointees (who are not confirmed by legislature) may be taking some of the responsibilities usually given to cabinet members, who must be confirmed, and that these officials are not required to testify before Congress. Seems like a legitimate concern to me, and by legitimate concern I don't mean I agree with (insert your least favorite right-wing pundit) that it is the end of democracy.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2009/02/25/25greenwire-byrd-questions-obamas-use-of-policy-czars-9865.html |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 09/19/2009 : 03:08:00 [Permalink]
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I'm laughing my ass off at the cry-baby routines. "Czar" in US parlance is a made-up term with no real meaning. All these people are is advisors. That's why, like their counterparts in all administrations, they don't have to be confirmed by Congress. Because the make no policy, the administer nothing, they hire and fire no-one.
Conservatives are having one hell of a time understanding that they are out of power and have no say over what the President does within his powers. Try this: We the people voted you out! And quoting that bastard KKK leader and racist Byrd doesn't add anything to the argument.
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“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Czar Crazy
