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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 20:28:37 [Permalink]
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Bill is projecting. His religion includes prophets like Peter, Paul, his local pastor, minister, the Pope, Ray Comfort, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Fred Phelps (etc.) who make pronouncements which are supposed to be followed or at least agreed to (or else). Bill thinks that because he's just a sheep who doesn't think for himself, that nobody else does, either. And so he's trying (and miserably failing) to set PZ up as an atheist prophet whose disciples hang upon his every word. But that only applies to online polls, and even then it's only a joke to make a point.
I predict that if Bill replies to this, it will only be to make it more obvious that he's doing whatever it is he accuses others of doing. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 09/20/2009 : 20:30:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ricky
| But PZ is so confident in his conclusion only to be completely wrong. |
Bill, PZ said:
| What most likely happened here is that |
This is not a phrase that comes from a man speaking dogmatically. The only one confident in their conclusions here is you.
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He is talking about how the leg most likely appeared, not that it is most likely a leg. He says: It is a snake leg. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 09/20/2009 20:33:41 |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 20:47:48 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Bill is projecting. His religion includes prophets like Peter, Paul, his local pastor, minister, the Pope, Ray Comfort, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly, Fred Phelps (etc.) who make pronouncements which are supposed to be followed or at least agreed to (or else). Bill thinks that because he's just a sheep who doesn't think for himself, that nobody else does, either. And so he's trying (and miserably failing) to set PZ up as an atheist prophet whose disciples hang upon his every word. But that only applies to online polls, and even then it's only a joke to make a point. |
None of your ramblings change the fact that the great PZ declared that this was a snake leg and then dreamt up some wild story about how the snake leg, that was not really a snake leg, may have appeared. He then insists that the only way anybody is going to convince him that this is not a snake leg is through an autopsy. If PZ is so confident, yet so wrong, about the snake leg why should we trust him on other issues where he rambles on and on with great confidence? As skeptics we should not. We all just learned a valuable lesson here. Besides PZ being a blowhard, he really don't know that much about snakes.
| I predict that if Bill replies to this, it will only be to make it more obvious that he's doing whatever it is he accuses others of doing. |
Well you cant do much worse then PZ on your accuracy %. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 20:52:19 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
But you choose to link PZ so who cares where you went first. |
And when I linked to his post, he'd already written his update.| Has nothing at all to do with the fact that the great PZ just tried to ram a bunch of nonsense down his followers throat that was not true at all. |
Okay, Bill, we now have you on record that pleiotropy is "not true at all," showing off your ignorance given the zillion other examples we have of it.| Until he is proven wrong PZ himself declares it is a snake leg. Not could be a snake leg, but is a snake leg. It is not. |
Bill, you are bearing false witness again, since PZ said, "What most likely happened here..." Not "what did happen here."| He will not back down from his claim that this is a snake leg until he sees an autopsy. |
He never made such a claim. Forget bearing false witness, Bill, it's clear that you intend to keep lying about this. I'm sure you know the difference.From his blog:| Look at the interesting snake found in China; it's got a leg. |
Yep, he thinks it is a snake leg. No maybe a snake leg or could be a snake leg, nor does he say the snake has eaten a leg. He says the snake has a leg. |
The snake does have a leg. You take that to mean that, indisputably, the snake grew the leg on its own. It is clear from PZ's own post that he just thought that to be "most likely" until some commenters made some "good suggestions."| Here he rambles on about how he believes the leg may have appeared completely oblivious to the fact that his conclusion that it is a snake leg is completely wrong. |
No, it was a teachable moment about pleiotropy, which happens all the time.| Here he is blaming the snake leg on global warming/climate change brought on by the evils of capitalism and Fox News. |
Bill, you are a liar, plain and simple. PZ clearly speculated that it was due to "pollutants" which alter development, of which we have zillions of other examples (perhaps you have heard of thalidomide?). PZ didn't mention, imply or even hint at "global warming/climate change" being a cause, which is good because it would have been ridiculous. PZ certainly didn't mention "the evils of capitalism and Fox News," so now you're just making shit up from whole cloth.| Here is PZ reaffirming that until he is proved wrong it is a snake leg, because after all he is, well, he is PZ. |
No, there is PZ saying that it's a toss-up between pleiotropy and an ingested lizard, and a dissection would show which it is.
The real point is that regardless of the results of the dissection, the snake still represents a good teachable moment about pleiotropy, which you ignorantly deny happens, and so you feel the need to lie about PZ's internal state-of-mind (which you can't possibly know). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 20:53:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
He is talking about how the leg most likely appeared, not that it is most likely a leg. He says: It is a snake leg. |
The phrase "snake leg" appears nowhere in his post, Bill. You lied again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:00:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
None of your ramblings change the fact that the great PZ declared that this was a snake leg and then dreamt up some wild story about how the snake leg, that was not really a snake leg, may have appeared. He then insists that the only way anybody is going to convince him that this is not a snake leg is through an autopsy. If PZ is so confident, yet so wrong, about the snake leg why should we trust him on other issues where he rambles on and on with great confidence? As skeptics we should not. We all just learned a valuable lesson here. Besides PZ being a blowhard, he really don't know that much about snakes. |
Thus, you prove my prediction correct, Bill. You are so confident, and so wrong, about this, so why should we trust you on any issue at all? After all, you are the one who brought up "trust," so it's obviously the way you treat facts: the people you "trust" are correct, and those you don't "trust" are wrong. But that's not the way skepticism is done, you're just projecting your own sheepishness all over the forums and you don't have the common decency to wipe up after yourself.
We've learned a valuable lesson here: Bill scott is an unrepentant liar and thinks that everyone else reasons just as poorly as he does (since he can't see any better way to think, nobody else must think better, 'cause his god tells him he's special). Actually, of course, most of us learned that lesson long ago, but a refresher doesn't hurt. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:11:15 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Until he is proven wrong PZ himself declares it is a snake leg. Not could be a snake leg, but is a snake leg. It is not. |
Bill, you are bearing false witness again, since PZ said, "What most likely happened here..." Not "what did happen here." |
Again, from the top. When he says "What most likely happened here" he was referring to how the evolutionary process put the leg there. He never said this most likely was a leg. He said it was a leg. It was not a leg. So you, and PZ, just lied.
| Bill, you are a liar, plain and simple. PZ clearly speculated that it was due to "pollutants" which alter development, of which we have zillions of other examples (perhaps you have heard of thalidomide?). PZ didn't mention, imply or even hint at "global warming/climate change" being a cause, which is good because it would have been ridiculous. PZ certainly didn't mention "the evils of capitalism and Fox News," so now you're just making shit up from whole cloth. |
Satire is not lying and you know that. It is satire.
| The phrase "snake leg" appears nowhere in his post, Bill. You lied again. |
Don't go down to Dude's level. It is not a pretty place to be. Just ask dude. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:21:27 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
| Bill, you are bearing false witness again, since PZ said, "What most likely happened here..." Not "what did happen here." |
First line of the PZ blog:
| Look at the interesting snake found in China it's got a leg. |
No "what most likely happened" here. No "it most likely is a leg" here. Nope, PZ says "its got a leg".
He then rambles on and on about how evolution may have put the leg there but he was dead wrong. Some may even say that he lied.
He only speculates on how evolution put the leg on the snake. He never speculates that evolution did put the leg on the snake. He was wrong/he lied. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 09/20/2009 21:23:35 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:22:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Again, from the top. When he says "What most likely happened here" he was referring to how the evolutionary process put the leg there. He never said this most likely was a leg. He said it was a leg. It was not a leg. So you, and PZ, just lied. |
It is a leg. It may be a lizard leg. It may be a snake leg. What do you think it is if not a leg? An ear?| Satire is not lying and you know that. It is satire. |
When called on your nonsense, you backpedal and try to make it into something else, just like you're accusing PZ of doing. Once again, you prove my point that you're projecting.| The phrase "snake leg" appears nowhere in his post, Bill. You lied again. |
Don't go down to Dude's level. It is not a pretty place to be. Just ask dude. |
See? You refuse to own up to your obvious errors, just like you're accusing PZ of doing. The more you say, the more you demonstrate my armchair psychology to be correct. Go ahead, make another post. Provide us all with more evidence of your duplicity and un-Christian attitude. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:26:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
No "what most likely happened" here. No "it most likely is a leg" here. Nope, PZ says "its got a leg". |
And it does have a leg.| He then rambles on and on about how evolution may have put the leg there but he was dead wrong. |
Where is your proof that he was wrong?| Some may even say that he lied. |
I say that you are lying.| He only speculates on how evolution put the leg on the snake. |
No, he tells us how it is consistent with evolution. We have many, many examples of pleiotropy, but you won't dare ask for any others.| He never speculates that evolution did put the leg on the snake. |
Sure he did, with his "most likely."And you've somehow got proof that it is not the snake's own leg so you know that he was wrong? Where is your evidence, Bill? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:36:24 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
Originally posted by Bill scott
Again, from the top. When he says "What most likely happened here" he was referring to how the evolutionary process put the leg there. He never said this most likely was a leg. He said it was a leg. It was not a leg. So you, and PZ, just lied. |
It is a leg. It may be a lizard leg. It may be a snake leg. What do you think it is if not a leg? An ear? |
Surly PZ does not give an explanation on how evolution put a lizard leg on the snake. He gives an explanation on how evolution put the snakes own leg on the snake. And you know this. You did read his blog, right?
| When called on your nonsense, you backpedal and try to make it into something else, just like you're accusing PZ of doing. Once again, you prove my point that you're projecting. |
Yeah, I really believe that PZ blames Fox News for the leg on the snake. Get real dude and give up on the semantics.
| The phrase "snake leg" appears nowhere in his post, Bill. You lied again. |
Don't go down to Dude's level. It is not a pretty place to be. Just ask dude. |
See? You refuse to own up to your obvious errors, just like you're accusing PZ of doing. The more you say, the more you demonstrate my armchair psychology to be correct. Go ahead, make another post. Provide us all with more evidence of your duplicity and un-Christian attitude. |
OK now you are just being silly. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:48:24 [Permalink]
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Bill:
He only speculates on how evolution put the leg on the snake. He never speculates that evolution did put the leg on the snake. He was wrong/he lied. |
Well, strictly speaking, evolution did put the leg there. So the only thing left was to speculate on how it got there.
That he was immediately willing to reconsider is a demonstration of PZ's honesty. Perhaps that's a quality that you don't recognize, Bill. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 21:58:19 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Dave W. |
Originally posted by Bill scott
No "what most likely happened" here. No "it most likely is a leg" here. Nope, PZ says "its got a leg". |
And it does have a leg. |
And fility claims it is most likely a lizard leg, not a leg produced by the snake itself, as PZ has explained.
| He then rambles on and on about how evolution may have put the leg there but he was dead wrong. |
Where is your proof that he was wrong? |
As skeptics, the bigger question we need to be asking is where is his proof that he is right? Just cause PZ says evolution is responsible for the leg dont make it so, as we found out.
| Some may even say that he lied. |
I say that you are lying. |
You are lying.
| He only speculates on how evolution put the leg on the snake. |
No, he tells us how it is consistent with evolution. We have many, many examples of pleiotropy, but you won't dare ask for any others. |
From his blog:
| What most likely happened here is that some environmental agent suppressed the suppressor, allowing the old developmental program for a limb to be re-expressed. |
Here he speculates on how the suppressor was suppressed allowing the old development for a limb.
| He never speculates that evolution did put the leg on the snake. |
Sure he did, with his "most likely." |
Nope. (see above)
And you've somehow got proof that it is not the snake's own leg so you know that he was wrong? Where is your evidence, Bill? |
Where is PZs evidence that this is the snakes leg? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 22:04:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Surly PZ does not give an explanation on how evolution put a lizard leg on the snake. He gives an explanation on how evolution put the snakes own leg on the snake. And you know this. You did read his blog, right? |
Hey, you are the one who is now claiming that it is "not a leg." How you got to such an indefensible position, I can't say. It clearly is a leg. The only question is whether it is the snake's own leg or some other reptile's leg.| Yeah, I really believe that PZ blames Fox News for the leg on the snake. |
Given your other lies, I couldn't reasonably exclude the possibility that you think that someone like PZ would think that FOX news leads to more global warming which leads to snakes with legs.| Get real dude and give up on the semantics. |
If your posts weren't such all-around jokes, Bill, perhaps it would be easier to tell when you are allegedly posting "satire."| OK now you are just being silly. |
No, actually, you did it again with this reply. You said that PZ said, "It is a snake leg" (your bold). PZ said no such thing. When called on your lie, you try to distract away from it by insulting Dude and then hand-waving the whole incident (which was caused by you) with "OK now you are just being silly."
Why don't you just confess to your lies? Do you really think that Jesus is going to defend this immoral behavior of yours? And if so, why aren't you out raping and pillaging, just for fun? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/20/2009 : 22:14:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
And fility claims it is most likely a lizard leg, not a leg produced by the snake itself, as PZ has explained. |
PZ said both.| As skeptics, the bigger question we need to be asking is where is his proof that he is right? |
No, as a skeptic, you wouldn't have said that "PZ is wrong/lied." You're not a skeptic. You never were a skeptic.| Just cause PZ says evolution is responsible for the leg dont make it so, as we found out. |
PZ didn't say that, he said, "most likely." You lie again.About what? You lying? I couldn't be more honest in that regard.| Here he speculates on how the suppressor was suppressed allowing the old development for a limb. |
Thank you for proving my point.| He never speculates that evolution did put the leg on the snake. |
Sure he did, with his "most likely." |
Nope. (see above) |
Since the "above" proves my point, thank you for proving it again.| Where is PZs evidence that this is the snakes leg? |
A bold attempt at a distraction away from the claim that you made: "PZ is wrong/lied." Where is your evidence that PZ is either wrong or that he lied, Bill? All claims must stand on their own. You have claimed to know that at the very least, that the leg in the photo is not the snake's own leg. How do you know that? Where is your evidence? What PZ said is utterly irrelevant to what you said of your own free will, so how is it that you know that not only is PZ wrong, but that he may have known that he was wrong? Cough up the evidence, Bill, or admit that you were wrong/lied. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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A snake matter for Filthy
