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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 11:43:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You didn't lie about your age being 13+ when you registered? |
Actually, if you don't put in a birthday at registration, the software stupidly assumes that your registration date is your birthday and that you're 13. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:10:24 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You didn't lie about your age being 13+ when you registered? |
Actually, if you don't put in a birthday at registration, the software stupidly assumes that your registration date is your birthday and that you're 13.
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I was referring to his childish taunts. Made me think he was 12yrs or maybe less.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:31:49 [Permalink]
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By the way, no creationist discovered the frauds that Matt36 mentions. And one of them wasn't actually a fraud so much is it was a sloppy, rush to publish in a non peer reviewed magazine, that has embarrassed National Geographic, as so it should have. Technically, Archaeoraptor was not a fraud. It was a stupid mistake. In any case, it didn't take long for the mistake to be discovered. And again, it wasn't a creationist who figured it out.
Two fossils out of millions. Whoa, now that's what I would call a conspiracy if I were prone to grasping at straws...
When you gonna mention the pigs tooth, Matt?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 12:39:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
| Most of your "supportive" data also fits into a creation theory... |
Name a creation theory that includes trillions of dead creatures before the creation of man.
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Oh, I think we should give him this one. He did say "a creation theory". There are an infinite amount of those that could have trillions of dead creatures before the creation of man.
Matt36, it is true that data that supports evolution does in fact support some sort of creation theory. Do you see a problem with this sort of argument?
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 13:16:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
By the way, no creationist discovered the frauds that Matt36 mentions. And one of them wasn't actually a fraud so much is it was a sloppy, rush to publish in a non peer reviewed magazine, that has embarrassed National Geographic, as so it should have. Technically, Archaeoraptor was not a fraud. It was a stupid mistake. In any case, it didn't take long for the mistake to be discovered. And again, it wasn't a creationist who figured it out.
Two fossils out of millions. Whoa, now that's what I would call a conspiracy if I were prone to grasping at straws...
When you gonna mention the pigs tooth, Matt?
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I might add that Archaeoraptor, a specimen made up of two separate fossils skillfully glued together, is a valuable find in it's own right. One of the species involved was formerly unknown. Using this fraud as a talking point is not only futile but funny.
Now Piltdown, on the other hand, stayed locked away in the British Museum for decades. The bones themselves were not given out for study, only plaster casts of them. There were suspicions of fraud right from the very beginning.
No, I fear that the great bulk of fraudulent actions lie at the Creationist's doorstep. They have no laboratories, send out no field teams. They do no research beyond picking apart the works of others in order to preach falsehoods, bastardizing legitimate scientific papers as they go, and use God as merely their sock-puppet.
God is a sockpuppet
Category: Religion • Science
Posted on: December 1, 2009 11:58 AM, by PZ Myers
So true and so hilarious: a study has found that god speaks with a remarkably egocentric voice. In tests that asked people what god's opinion of various matters was, the unsurprising discovery was that it was the same as the individual's opinion — and of course every person's opinion was different. You'd expect some consistency if they were all hearing god's word, you would think!
It fits with the typical vision of the sockpuppeteer, too: the loser whose opinions are indefensible, so he invents an army of aliases to agree with him. And what more powerful sockpuppet could there be than to have your arm up a god's butt?
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I suggest opening the link within the link.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 15:06:06 [Permalink]
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I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:12:12 [Permalink]
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A couple of things have bothered me about the article that Matt quoted from. Creationists do so love to quote mine.
From the un-sourced text that Matt quoted from, we get this:
"J Stern and R Sussman of the American Journal of Physical Anthropology said, "The fact that the anterior portion of the iliac blade faces laterally in humans but not in chimpanzees is obvious. The marked resemblance of Lucy to the chimpanzee is equally obvious. It suggests to us that the lateral pelvic balance during bipedalism was closer to that of apes than humans."
Ahhhhh.. But as usual, there is more to the story.
Talk Origins: Fossil Hominids: Response to In the Beginning by Walter Brown
| Stern and Susman do claim Lucy was arboreal. They also claim she was bipedal, although probably not walking identically to humans. The differences may have been bioenergetic, or a lesser amount of extension in the knee or hip. These differences are certainly not dramatic enough to preclude the idea that Lucy was evolving towards full-time human bipedality, and in fact Stern and Susman consider her to be an excellent example of a transitional form. |
And:
Stony Brook Research
| Two members of the Department of Anatomical Sciences in the School of Medicine, Profs. Jack T. Stern, Jr., and Randall L. Susman, stepped forward, almost literally into the glare of the media, to apply their knowledge as comparative primate anatomists with experimental background in assessing relationships between form and function to perform a comprehensive functional analysis of this material, describing the stance and motion attributable to the size, shape and character of the hip, knee, ankle, and foot. Public attention focused on their conclusion, published in March, 1983 (“The locomotor anatomy of Australopithecus afarensis,” American Journal of Physical Anthropology, 60:3 (1983), 279–317) that “Lucy” was “very close to what can be called a missing link. It possesses a combination of traits entirely appropriate for an animal that had traveled well down the road toward full-time bipedality . . . . “ |
And then there was this claim:
"Dr Owen Lovejoy actually seemed to disagree that Lucys bone could resemble a chimps so what does he do? He make a mould and gets a power saw out and "MODIFIES" the bones so that they fit as he would like them so that it backs up the case for evolution. There is a video of him actually doing this."
I could find nothing on Matt’s un-sourced article that supports the claim that C. Owen Lovejoy modified any bone of Lucy’s. And really, given Owen Lovejoy’s stature as an expert in bipedal walking, and as the well-known and respected anthropologist that he still is, I’m calling that claim downright ridiculous and a lie. If it were true, Lovejoy wouldn’t have a career now. Scientists love to eat their own, and if Lovejoy had done any such thing, his reputation as a scientist would have been destroyed.
Whoever wrote the article that Matt has borrowed from, but didn’t source, is a liar. And Matt is spreading those lies.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:31:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
And really, given Owen Lovejoy’s stature as an expert in bipedal walking, and as the well-known and respected anthropologist that he still is, I’m calling that claim downright ridiculous and a lie. |
But, but, but... Matt said there's a video. How can it be a lie if there's a video?! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:38:38 [Permalink]
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If I may play the Devil's Advocate in a small way...
It is possible that Dr. Lovejoy sawed up a cast of the bone; however Matt needs to get in the habit of sourcing his references. Until he does that, he is committing the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad verecundiam.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:52:42 [Permalink]
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Dr. Lovejoy was easy enough to track down but I was unable to find the video.
Kent State University Professor C. Owen Lovejoy helps unveil oldest hominid skeleton
KENT, Ohio -- Oct. 1, 2009 -- Throw out all those posters and books that depict an ape evolving into a human being, says Kent State University Professor of Anthropology Dr. C. Owen Lovejoy. An internationally recognized biological anthropologist who specializes in the study of human origins, Lovejoy is one of the primary authors who revealed their research findings today on Ardipithecus ramidus, a hominid species that lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.
"People often think we evolved from apes, but no, apes in many ways evolved from us," Lovejoy said. "It has been a popular idea to think humans are modified chimpanzees. From studying Ardipithecus ramidus, or 'Ardi,' we learn that we cannot understand or model human evolution from chimps and gorillas."
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:56:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
If I may play the Devil's Advocate in a small way...
It is possible that Dr. Lovejoy sawed up a cast of the bone; however Matt needs to get in the habit of sourcing his references. Until he does that, he is committing the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad verecundiam.
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Ha! Well of course it would had to have been a cast. Ethiopia owns Lucy's bones. I'm sure they would have been more than a little peeved if Lovejoy had taken a saw to them. But here is what's funny about the claim. Even if Lovejoy did take a saw to one of the casts of Lucy, so what? It's not as though no one would have noticed, if his reason for doing so was to trick anyone about anything.
Why?
Because the real bones exist, dummy!!!
Matt has bought even the shakiest of stories, hook line and sinker...
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 17:59:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Dr. Lovejoy was easy enough to track down but I was unable to find the video.
Kent State University Professor C. Owen Lovejoy helps unveil oldest hominid skeleton
KENT, Ohio -- Oct. 1, 2009 -- Throw out all those posters and books that depict an ape evolving into a human being, says Kent State University Professor of Anthropology Dr. C. Owen Lovejoy. An internationally recognized biological anthropologist who specializes in the study of human origins, Lovejoy is one of the primary authors who revealed their research findings today on Ardipithecus ramidus, a hominid species that lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.
"People often think we evolved from apes, but no, apes in many ways evolved from us," Lovejoy said. "It has been a popular idea to think humans are modified chimpanzees. From studying Ardipithecus ramidus, or 'Ardi,' we learn that we cannot understand or model human evolution from chimps and gorillas."
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I linked to him too. But yeah. I know exactly who he is. I have been reading his stuff for the last 30 years, starting with Lucy and up through Ardi.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 18:01:51 [Permalink]
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Matt, when are you going to get back to me on ERVs, transposons, and human chromosome 2?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 18:24:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by filthy
Dr. Lovejoy was easy enough to track down but I was unable to find the video.
Kent State University Professor C. Owen Lovejoy helps unveil oldest hominid skeleton
KENT, Ohio -- Oct. 1, 2009 -- Throw out all those posters and books that depict an ape evolving into a human being, says Kent State University Professor of Anthropology Dr. C. Owen Lovejoy. An internationally recognized biological anthropologist who specializes in the study of human origins, Lovejoy is one of the primary authors who revealed their research findings today on Ardipithecus ramidus, a hominid species that lived 4.4 million years ago in what is now Ethiopia.
"People often think we evolved from apes, but no, apes in many ways evolved from us," Lovejoy said. "It has been a popular idea to think humans are modified chimpanzees. From studying Ardipithecus ramidus, or 'Ardi,' we learn that we cannot understand or model human evolution from chimps and gorillas."
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I linked to him too. But yeah. I know exactly who he is. I have been reading his stuff for the last 30 years, starting with Lucy and up through Ardi.
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I've read him but forgot the name and wasn't sure it was the same guy. Had Matt supplied the link, there would've been no problem and his post would have been a lot more interesting.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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matt36
New Member
Australia
49 Posts |
Posted - 12/01/2009 : 23:23:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
You didn't lie about your age being 13+ when you registered? |
Actually, if you don't put in a birthday at registration, the software stupidly assumes that your registration date is your birthday and that you're 13.
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I was referring to his childish taunts. Made me think he was 12yrs or maybe less.
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Im not one of those ppl who is concerned by these type of taunts. Continue if you wish. What gets my goat though is being accused of lying. If you think i lie then keep it to yourself please because ill ignore you if you continue. Dave, i do not wish to ignore you as you are one who i can actually hold a conversation with. Most evolutionists in the past i have spoken with will not because they cannot discuss with me. I value the discussion here, so Dave, please lay off the accusations if you wish to be included in the conversation. If you are slightly angry with me because you think i singled you out, then dont be. You were first to respond to me so you were first to get a reply. Regards, Matt. |
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Dennett answers NY Times on Dawkins’ book
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