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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
 Posted - 03/04/2010 : 13:00:16 [Permalink]
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That just reminded me of a time when I went to an automation show with a few other guys from here at work. Like I said the last time I looked they print messages off in at least 5 different languages when they post something in the break room. We are the true melting pot right here. Anyway at the automation show one of the salesmen is involved in a conversation with my co-worker:
Salesman: What brand of automation does your company use?
Co-worker: Foreigners.
Salesman: Hmm, I am not familiar with that brand.
Co-worker: Sure you are. Bosnians, Mexicans, Vietnamese etc...
Salesman: (after about a 5 second pause the light bulb comes on) Oh I get it, hahahaha.
Man I about spit up my drink all over the salesman when my co-worker busts out with "foreigners" without even missing a beat. Good times. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 15:40:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Yet Mark Skoda, a spoksmen for the tea party, said the speech was problematic and doesn't further the dialogue. |
And I pointed that out already, and agreed. But Skoda saying those things is no indication of whether or not he agreed with Tancredo's sentiments. It's problematic and furthers no dialogue when people here try to educate you when you're in one of your AGW denialist moods, but I agree with them, anyway.| So apparently there are several factions withing the tea party itself. |
That's a fact not in evidence.| But regardless, I never chimed in to defend the purity of the movement. |
But you did try to push the racism off onto some hypothetical fringe group within the Tea Party. I know what you "chimed in" for, but you wound up saying quite a bit more than that, voluntarily.| Most Americans will accept multiculturalism up to a point. If you want to come here and wear your voo-doo dress around in public and claim that it is part of your culture and religion then few would have a problem with this. But if your involved in dog fighting, or insist on wearing a veil over your face while you get your driver license picture and claim that this is part of your culture then tough luck. Go back to your culture then. If you want to learn English and then come to America, or learn it once you are here then we welcome you with open arms. And having one official language just makes everything much easer for everyone, especially the foreigners. It has nothing to with brown people. |
"English only" is not synonymous with "English as our official language." |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 22:01:47 [Permalink]
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| Actually, we did have a few fringe crackpots in the forum here and there. Perhaps you noticed that the last one we had was banned for a month. I'm sure that any businesses who felt their employees were behaving badly (that includes racism, or thinking that one race was dominant over another) would be fired. The tea parties don't seem to be working toward eliminating any fringers or racists. |
| Edited by - podcat on 03/04/2010 22:02:42 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2010 : 22:19:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Where are all the people of color at the SFN? Must be a group heavy into racism and segregation then.
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That's a really stupid question. Far from all members have photos in their profiles, and it's not mandatory to include ethnicity either. How do you know I'm not of African descent?
There's another argument that you could make, which can be used in my favour here for SFN membership, which you could use in defense of Ms. Allquist. Let's see of you're bright enough to figure it out. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 06:29:58 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by podcat |
| I'm sure that any businesses who felt their employees were behaving badly (that includes racism, or thinking that one race was dominant over another) would be fired. The tea parties don't seem to be working toward eliminating any fringers or racists. |
But the tea parties are not a business run by one CEO or a board of directors. My guess is that tea party chapter X has little say or control over tea party chapter Y and vice-a-versa. In a group or movement of this scope and size you are going to attract a wide array of folks. You will have many factions within the movement itself. You will have the far right side of the tea people all the way to the far left side of the tea people (If you will). Like I said I have never been to a tea party, never received any information from them, gave them money. What I know of them is what I see from the MSNBC, CNN and FOX news coverage. From what I can tell there is a faction of the tea party which contains racist motivations and/or racist individuals, but from all the coverage I have seen this seems to be a minority faction. I believe the CNN article that Dave referenced nails down who the mainstream tea people are. In their piece on who the tea people are we see that they think BO is a socialist, or at the least he is pushing an agenda which heavily leans in a socialist direction. They think federal government spending is out of control and they blame both parties for this. And many of them think John McCain would have been even a worse president then Obama. In the CNN piece on who the tea people were there was not one mention of any racist motivation. So can we conclude that all the tea party chapters are free and clear of any racist motivations? No. But we can conclude that in their investigation CNN concluded that the faction who was motivated by race was such a minority that they did not even give them any mention in their coverage. And that was CNN's conclusions not Fox News
| Contrary to Tancredo's remarks, the Tea Party is not about "name-calling," said Rand Paul, whose campaign for a U.S. Senate seat in Kentucky is supported by the Tea Party. |
So many/more of the leaders do disagree with Tancredo.
| "There are politicians who have gone into the movement and tried to become part of the movement," he said on CNN's American Morning."But really the movement is about individual people." |
That is what I was saying from the beginning. It's about the individual. Half Mooner was trying to lambaste an individual by declaring that anyone who is involved in any tea party and lives south of Ohio is a racist, even though he offered no other evidence then to say she was at a tea party and came from south of Ohio, therefore she was a racist.
| The activists are mostly concerned about the "fiscal insolvency of our nation," he said. "We have to do something, and it's not going to come from the career politicians." |
So fiscal issues are the main concern and not race.
| Speeches are not the focus of the convention. |
So Tancredo and his speech is not even the focus of this particular convention.
| Organizers hope the three-day event will help strengthen the anti-big-government movement. On its Web site, Tea Party Nation says the event is "aimed at bringing the Tea Party Movement leaders together from around the nation for the purpose of networking and supporting the movement's multiple organizations' principal goals." |
So fighting big government is another motivation rather then race. And just as I thought, there are many different tea party leaders who need to be brought together to try and unite under a common goal, which means even the tea party leaders don't all agree with each other.
There has been pushback against the convention and its organizers from both outsiders and some in the movement because of the Tea Party Nation's for-profit status and because the price of entry attendees have paid for access to the workshops and seminars being held through Saturday.
Red State blogger Erick Erickson wrote that while he has good things to say about some groups within the Tea Party, "this national Tea Party convention smells scammy."
Mark Meckler said he and Jenny Beth Martin, co-founders of the Tea Party Patriots, aren't participating in the convention because "it wasn't the kind of grass-roots organization that we are, so we declined to participate.". |
Again, like I thought, there are many factions within the tea party movement itself.
| As controversy surrounds the convention, tensions have been rising among Tea Party activists. Rival factions are battling over who will carry the Tea Party banner, |
Again, nobody even knows who the real true tea party people are. Because of it's initial success now all of sudden every Tom, Dick and Harry who comes out of the woodwork wants to jump on the tea party train.
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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| Edited by - Bill scott on 03/05/2010 07:37:42 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 14:45:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Anyway at the automation show one of the salesmen is involved in a conversation with my co-worker:
Salesman: What brand of automation does your company use?
Co-worker: Foreigners.
Salesman: Hmm, I am not familiar with that brand.
Co-worker: Sure you are. Bosnians, Mexicans, Vietnamese etc...
Salesman: (after about a 5 second pause the light bulb comes on) Oh I get it, hahahaha.
Man I about spit up my drink all over the salesman when my co-worker busts out with "foreigners" without even missing a beat. Good times.
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Did you even stop to consider that this joke was at least borderline racist? |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:24:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
In a group or movement of this scope and size you are going to attract a wide array of folks. You will have many factions within the movement itself. |
The same is more true of the two big parties, but if an invited speaker at either the Democratic or Republican National Conventions says something bone-headed, the entire party rightly takes the blame. Why shouldn't the Tea Party? Why are you trying to excuse them?| I believe the CNN article that Dave referenced nails down who the mainstream tea people are. In their piece on who the tea people are we see that they think BO is a socialist, or at the least he is pushing an agenda which heavily leans in a socialist direction. |
They think wrongly, too.| They think federal government spending is out of control and they blame both parties for this. |
And yet, they're generally against the bailout money being paid back to the government.| And many of them think John McCain would have been even a worse president then Obama. |
You really should have watched the speech. Tancredo and the people in the audience are glad that McCain lost because otherwise the Tea Party wouldn't have formed in reaction to Obama's Presidency. A McCain Presidency would have meant no Tea Party. But if the Republicans are just as bad as the Democrats at governing, that means it's something personal about Obama which prompted the movement, and not all the baloney about socialism or big government.| In the CNN piece on who the tea people were there was not one mention of any racist motivation. |
Yes, there was. The "couldn't even spell 'vote'" bit was the punchline to Tancredo's call for a return to Jim Crow voting laws, which was loudly cheered.| But we can conclude that in their investigation CNN concluded that the faction who was motivated by race was such a minority that they did not even give them any mention in their coverage. |
That "faction" is mostly what the CNN article was about. The faction that cheered on Tancredo's racism.| Contrary to Tancredo's remarks, the Tea Party is not about "name-calling," said Rand Paul, whose campaign for a U.S. Senate seat in Kentucky is supported by the Tea Party. |
So many/more of the leaders do disagree with Tancredo. |
So you're saying that name-calling is racism?| "There are politicians who have gone into the movement and tried to become part of the movement," he said on CNN's American Morning."But really the movement is about individual people." |
That is what I was saying from the beginning. It's about the individual. |
The movement may be about individuals, but the Tea Party, as a political party, is not.| The activists are mostly concerned about the "fiscal insolvency of our nation," he said. "We have to do something, and it's not going to come from the career politicians." |
So fiscal issues are the main concern and not race. |
And yet, they're against measures to get money back from bailed-out companies.| Speeches are not the focus of the convention. |
So Tancredo and his speech is not even the focus of this particular convention. |
Speeches aren't the focus of the Dem or Rep conventions, either, but misspeak and it'll be all over the news as a black-eye on the entire party.| So fighting big government is another motivation rather then race. |
Yet they're not actually doing anything to fight big government.| And just as I thought, there are many different tea party leaders who need to be brought together to try and unite under a common goal, which means even the tea party leaders don't all agree with each other. |
Just as there are lots of Dem and Rep leaders who do the same, but screw up and it's a stain on the whole party. Find me a quote of a Tea Party leader who has directly addressed and repudiated the racism in Tancredo's speech. Then you'll make the point you're trying (and failing) to make.| Mark Meckler said he and Jenny Beth Martin, co-founders of the Tea Party Patriots, aren't participating in the convention because "it wasn't the kind of grass-roots organization that we are, so we declined to participate.". |
Again, like I thought, there are many factions within the tea party movement itself. |
Again, they're not saying that they repudiate Tancredo's racism.| Again, nobody even knows who the real true tea party people are. Because of it's initial success now all of sudden every Tom, Dick and Harry who comes out of the woodwork wants to jump on the tea party train. |
Interestingly, it may be a train wreck in the making. If they tear away too many Republican votes, they'll wind up doing to Republican candidates what Ralph Nader voters did to Al Gore in 2000: split the vote and allow the common "enemy" to be voted in. The Democrats could wind up with many landslide-ish victories in November instead of losing to Republicans. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/05/2010 : 17:57:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Bill scott
Anyway at the automation show one of the salesmen is involved in a conversation with my co-worker:
Salesman: What brand of automation does your company use?
Co-worker: Foreigners.
Salesman: Hmm, I am not familiar with that brand.
Co-worker: Sure you are. Bosnians, Mexicans, Vietnamese etc...
Salesman: (after about a 5 second pause the light bulb comes on) Oh I get it, hahahaha.
Man I about spit up my drink all over the salesman when my co-worker busts out with "foreigners" without even missing a beat. Good times.
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Did you even stop to consider that this joke was at least borderline racist?
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In my opinion, that blows right across that border. With Bill's joyful reaction to a bigoted statement that describes "foreigners" as a form of useful automation, Bill labels himself. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/05/2010 17:58:31 |
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Zooming in on Teabaggers
