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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
 Posted - 03/06/2010 : 22:05:38
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Well, Vox is making hay of the Dawkins forums dispute and is taking a shot at atheists propensity for killing while he's at it.
Must be nice to be guided so by the holy spirit: You never have to worry about being refuted for spreading bullshit.
I know I'm late; I just stumbled upon this post now.
Anyway, this post is stupid as hell for the following reasons:
1) You religious people never stop and think that the reason that "atheists" kill so many people is: In modern times, there's more people and more effective weapons of destruction than there were in the centuries of religious killing.
Think about this: The Thirty Year's War killed off one third of the people in the German states. What would that amount to in today's numbers?
2) None of those "atheist" killings were done because of any doctrine or teaching of atheism. Unlike religious killings where they were actually able to quote verses to justify what they were doing, such as "those who blaspheme the name of the Lord shall be put to death" or "thou shall not suffer a witch to live", etc.
On the other hand, can you, Vox, give any justification that killings etc is "applied athiesm"? Can you name the atheism doctrinal text that says this? Or is that just more droppings from you?
Vox said something about similarly stupid in one of his WingNut Daily articles, and his "article" gets dissected here.
3) You people are making hay of a forum dispute? Good grief. "Eliminating freedoms" because of a locked forum board? Try "Prophecy Fellowship Forums" or the "Uncommon Descent" blog posts to see more examples of such "elimination of freedoms". On both those boards, pretty much anyone who disagrees with the party line gets tossed.
Then there's Bill Muehlenberg's site "Culture Watch" which is even worse.
If you truly want to see what real elimination of freedoms looks like, look at the history of your own religion. Think Calvin's Geneva, Catholicism, or what life for Jews would have been like under Luther. Then there's the "divine right of kings" idea which allowed for no representation but with taxation.
Here, just because we haven't started killing each other over doctrinal differences like members of your religion have done for centuries.(Crusades, Thirty Years War etc) is no reason to go ragging on us.
Do any of you have any idea just how fractious the history of your religion is? Does Ireland ring a bell?
For Vox to say that killing communities is what atheists do is the ultimate case of the Pot calling the Kettle black. Look at how the Crusaders treated Jews for heaven's sake. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 16:35:25 [Permalink]
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Well, I'm engaging the bastard himself now, under the name "Durantis".
Too bad my posts keep getting mangled. Even previewing doesn't seem to help. Ah well. Just gotta keep them short.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 16:40:52 [Permalink]
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| It seems to me that Vox Day's whole purpose in life is to eventually provoke an atheist into becoming a murderer. What a Christ-like man, huh? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2010 : 22:15:56 [Permalink]
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Well, I replied with the Bill of Rights to their assertions that "democracies" do "ride roughshod" over the rights of minorities.
I'm just pissed off that that idiot Vox said that I, as an atheist, support "totalitarianism"
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
| Edited by - the_ignored on 03/14/2010 22:51:01 |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2010 : 23:07:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Well, I replied with the Bill of Rights to their assertions that "democracies" do "ride roughshod" over the rights of minorities.
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A direct democracy would do that, wouldn't it? They're probably going there with it, when of course no one is actually talking about anywhere but the U.S. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
| Edited by - Machi4velli on 03/14/2010 23:09:44 |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 03:25:49 [Permalink]
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Well, for those who feel like abusing themselves, Vox has a WND column with a slideshow that's supposed to show how atheists are full of shit, presumably.
Natually, he's got a link of it to his blog.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/15/2010 : 05:44:03 [Permalink]
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Until just this morning, I didn't know who Vox Day is. I knew of him and that he had something to do with the WorldNetDaily, but that's about it -- just another neocon fruit bat unworthy of serious attention. Turns out that, according to Wikipedia, Mr. Day, aka Theodore Beale, is an interesting fruit bat, but still just another neocon fruit bat neertheless.
Ig, I'm not sure of the definition of "militant," as used by Vox is either. I think he's using to describe atheists, such as Dawkins, who are willing to speak out on their philosophies. Taken in that light, it includes all religious evangelicals, which outnumber atheists by a considerable margin, and on an average, a hell of a lot noisier.
I've never heard of atheists torching churchs, even the snarkiest of us.
Anyhow, he seems to be offended by some of us actually using the minuscule voice that we have. Good. May he become yet more offended.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 11:26:48 [Permalink]
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| Good work, Ignored. I find, I have to take breaks as it does get tiring. With all that is out there. We're not likely to change the instigators minds but expose their fallacies and failed logic for others to see. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2010 : 13:05:47 [Permalink]
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That "Dave" guy is doing better than me: His posts are formatted properly and he's making more points, as well as taking on more of those characters.
I'll leave it up to him, lazy bastard that I am.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 10:42:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Has anyone run a virus check on that Powerpoint file, yet? |
I went ahead and opened it, as there is some talk about the slide show over at Ed Brayton's blog. Here's a fisking:
Slide 1: intro.
Slides 2 and 3: slide 2 displays quotes from Harris, Dennett and Hitchens about religions being dangerous, but Vox Day wants you to think they are about religions causing wars. Slide 3 is a comparison of religiously caused wars to non-religiously caused wars since 8,000 BC, showing 7% of wars to have been caused by religion. Vox' implication is clear: religions cause very few wars (only 1 in 15!). So what? If this means that getting rid of religion will eliminate 7% of all future wars, I'm all for it!
Slides 4, 5 and 6: slide 4 presents quotes from Harris, Hitchens and Dawkins about religions leading to violence and/or crime. Slide 5 compares the number of murders motivated by religion, race and ethnicity in 2005 (6 of them) to the number of murders for all other reasons (16,686). Vox clearly expects us to think that (a) murder is a good proxy for violence, and (b) that murders for which the motive is unknown were not religiously motivated. (The circumstances were unknown in 37.8% of murders in 2005.) If anyone can find murders broken down by reason (with "religion" as one possible reason) in the FBI's "Crime in the United States 2005," I'd be much appreciative. There isn't a hint of any such data in the online version. In slide 6, Vox attempts to say that because the "no religion" population in UK prisons was higher than the "no religion" portion of the general population, the idea that atheists commit fewer crimes is rebutted. But "no religion" doesn't equal "atheist," and other comparisons (in the US) show no statistical difference in atheism in prison and in general.
Slides 7 and 8: Harris and Dawkins argue if Christian conservatism leads to social health, we ought to see nicer living environments in "Red State" America, and then they say we don't because the least dangerous cities are mostly in "blue" states, and the most-dangerous cities are mostly in "red" states. Vox thinks that counties would make for a more-accurate determination (and his data show the most-dangerous cities to be mostly in blue counties), but he ignores two facts: that cities aren't in counties in the US, and that the counties surrounding cities tend to be full of low-rent suburbs where religiosity and Democrat voters are both prevalent, anyway. Vox doesn't bother with a comparison of least-dangerous cities (I bet the counties they're in would be more blue, anyway).
Slides 9 and 10: "The Extinction Equation." Harris writes that military technology is dangerous in the hands of theists, and so theists must go. Vox counters that since science gave us the weapons, it is science which should be done away with, especially since religion was here first (and, according to Vox, has never threatened to destroy all of humanity). Of course, Vox would likely be dead without medical science, and surely wouldn't have the job he does (publishing his screed on the Web demonstrates that Vox isn't at all serious). Eliminating science is about as good for society as dropping A-bombs on cities, in terms of sheer body count.
Slides 11 and 12: Slide 11 is quotes from Harris, Dawkins, Stalin and Hitchens about religion and science being incompatible. Slide 12 is a poor attempt by Vox to link the religiosity of a country to its rate of output of articles about genetic and biological science, but he's only got three data points, the numbers are all over the map and he doesn't explicitly state any sort of conclusion (heck, he doesn't even explicitly state the argument).
Slides 13 and 14: On slide 13, Vox quotes Dawkins' answer to the tornado-in-a-junkyard argument, and then Vox misattributes the need for precise definitions to Dawkins instead of to the creationist who put forwards the tornado-in-a-junkyard argument in the first place. Vox then goes on (with data in slide 14) to suggest that a metric for "informational complexities" should be the mass of an animal's genome, and since amphibians have larger genomes than humans, this somehow refutes Dawkins' argument. Really, Dawkins doesn't imply that "Darwinian natural selection entails increasing complexity" as Vox claims he does, Dawkins says that evolutionary theory refutes the tornado-in-a-junkyard scenario. Besides which, evolutionary theory doesn't predict that frogs should have less DNA than humans.
Slides 15 and 16: Slide 15 is quotes from Harris, Dawkins and Richard Lynn about how high-IQ people are more likely to be atheists. Vox answer to this (on slide 16) is to show that the average intelligence of atheists is only 3 points above the average for everyone. So Vox is reversing the argument and answering the question of whether atheists are smarter than average. The old switcheroo will fool lots of people like Vox.
Slide 17: Read my book! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 20:33:49 [Permalink]
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| What do you mean cities aren't in counties? That certainly isn't true in general, I know lots of examples of cities that are in counties. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 20:40:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
What do you mean cities aren't in counties? That certainly isn't true in general, I know lots of examples of cities that are in counties.
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Really? Baltimore City isn't governed by Baltimore county. The City of Los Angeles isn't governed by LA county. Etc.
Perhaps you know of a lot of cities which are geographically surrounded by counties of the same name, but they are two independent bodies as far as governance is concerned.
Edited to add that I stand corrected. There are some Consolidated city-counties in the U.S. But only a few dozen, if Wikipedia's list is extensive. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/17/2010 : 21:19:29 [Permalink]
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| [For some reason, every time I read the OP's title, I tend to misread it as "Atheists axe murderers..." Go figure.] |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 08:22:49 [Permalink]
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That's an excellent take down, Dave.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/18/2010 : 17:27:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
That's an excellent take down, Dave. |
I fully agree, Dave. Good work. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Atheists are murderers: Vox Day again
