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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/22/2010 : 13:16:54 [Permalink]
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It's going to take a bit of tweaking before the bill is effective; then a fair amount of modifying before it's as it should be. Hey, fuck the insurance companies; they've been fucking us for too long. We now have a foot in their door.
In the meantime, the Rude Pundit has some thoughts on the outcome re: teabaggers and other, lower forms of of political life:
Celebrating the Passage of a Flawed But Necessary Bill, Part 1: Taunting:
So, c'mon, Tea Party fuckers, where's your war? Are you waiting for marching orders from Glenn Beck? Didn't Nancy Pelosi just deliver 'em to you with a couple of votes to spare? The Senate bill's been passed. Health care reform is the law of the land. The Senate's just adding a few geegaws and excising a few lumps. Bring this shit on, you teabaggers with your mouths so full of Rush Limbaugh's saggy, useless balls and eyes so blinded by the reflection of klieg lights off Sarah Palin's glaring glasses and ears too numb by the subhuman grunting that goes on around you at your despicable rallies of hatred that you've become deaf, dumb, and blind to the reality of your own lives. |
He gets better, and ruder, bless him, as he goes along.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 13:53:28 [Permalink]
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"I mean run everything like the VA." -- From the veterans I've spoken with they hate the VA. I am willing to hear more sides to the issue.
"I believe Germany's system is an 8% tax which covers everything."
Germany also benefits from not having 2 wars and their military in over 130 countries. The sooner we stop F-ing over other countries -- the sooner we can help ourselves here.
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 15:59:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rubicon95
When you say nationalize healthcare, do you mean making doctors state employees or creating a gov't run health insurance. There is a difference. When people hear nationalized HC, they think Cuba, but it could mean Sweden or Germany.
Personally, I'd rather give my doctor the payment directly and cut out any middle man. |
This seems to me to be one of the basic misunderstandings of health insurance, but perhaps I'm not understanding you properly.
One of the big reasons to have health insurance is not for the visits to your doctor every once in a while. It's for when you come down with a severe illness, have to go to the hospital and stay there for a while, needing specialist care and medicines. It's all fine and dandy to pay the doctor a few hundred dollars directly when you have something severe, but not quite severe enough to warrant specialist care. The thousands, if not tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars for specialist care are something else entirely. And that's what you need the insurance for.
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Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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dglas
Skeptic Friend
Canada
397 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 16:08:29 [Permalink]
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| I see America hasn't been swallowed whole by the abyss yet. |
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- dglas (In the hell of 1000 unresolved subplots...)
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The Presupposition of Intrinsic Evil
+ A Self-Justificatory Framework
= The "Heart of Darkness"
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 17:28:39 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by dglas
I see America hasn't been swallowed whole by the abyss yet.
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But when AGW begins to drown coastal communities, they'll doubtless attribute that to God's reaction to Obamacare. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/23/2010 04:07:07 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 19:29:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Who would you expect to be hit by the fines hardest? I expect those on the bubble, just barely making enough to not qualify for free stuff. |
I'd expect, if the system were set up rationally, for both the subsidies and fines to be progressive, and so people near the bubble would either get the tiniest subsidies or face the tiniest fines, depending on which side of "the line" they were on.
Given the hostilities in Congress currently, I also expect future Congresses will have to pass a bunch of clean-up legislation to fix problems with what's just been passed. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 19:37:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rubicon95
From the veterans I've spoken with they hate the VA. I am willing to hear more sides to the issue. |
You should ask filthy, then. If I remember, he's got a better appraisal than "hate."| Germany also benefits from not having 2 wars and their military in over 130 countries. The sooner we stop F-ing over other countries -- the sooner we can help ourselves here. |
Well, sure! Even though a lot of that military presence is a couple of Marines guarding an embassy, I wouldn't say that health care reform was the most-important thing we could do to better the country as a whole at this moment in time (especially since much of that reform won't go into effect for years). |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 19:38:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by dglas
I see America hasn't been swallowed whole by the abyss yet. |
Obama won't sign it into law until tomorrow. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2010 : 20:35:29 [Permalink]
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And now for a word from your regularly scheduled fucktard.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 01:16:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rubicon95
Personally, I'd rather give my doctor the payment directly and cut out any middle man.
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That would be ideal, but I've never heard of any place where that really works: Would you pick up the tab for your neighbour? If you cut out the middle-man, there will be no one who would pay for the poor. The doctor would have to work pro-bono and charge you with the time he spends on them. Then, you've created another problem: Who decides which person is wealthy enough to pay and gets it free?
In Sweden, a government agency is the middle-man, and overhead is less than 1% !!!
This thanks to not having insurance company share holders who demands a fat return on their investment.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/23/2010 01:24:40 |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 01:54:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
In Sweden, a government agency is the middle-man, and overhead is less than 1% !!! |
Do you have a reference for that figure? I have not seen any numbers from here before.
BTW, I see that a friend of mine at the moment is drinking a contrast agent, getting ready for a CT scan and X-ray of the lungs. Anybody who thinks he would prefer to pay the doctor for this out of his pocket? |
"Any religion that makes a form of torture into an icon that they worship seems to me a pretty sick sort of religion quite honestly"
-- Terry Jones |
| Edited by - Starman on 03/23/2010 02:01:48 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 02:15:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by filthy
Cry me a river... |
I heard a compelling argument this morning for why the cries for repeal won't go anywhere. While most of the provisions in the current reform bill won't go into effect for years, some of them will go into effect within months (perhaps even before the elections). At least one of those early ones is a provision which forces the insurance companies to cover children with pre-existing conditions.
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I read today that some insurance companies will be setting up and following the new law well before it is set to be enforced. So the benefits could become reality sooner than mandated.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 02:33:22 [Permalink]
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Also, this alleged fine for not buying health insurance seems to be nothing but fearmongering. The senate bill, which is what the house just passed and what is going to be signed into law, does include a tax if you fail to buy but it also specifically states that you will not be subject to any fine or criminal penalty for not paying that tax. It will just be deducted from your next IRS refund or government payment.
That is what factcheck.org says anyway.
There has been a lot of talk about states taking this law to court today too. Most of it based on some fantasy notion that the government can't force you to buy a "good or service". Which is completely bullshit. I'm pretty sure I am forced to pay for the services rendered by medicare and social security (to name two on the federal level) and things like auto insurance, seat belts(seat belt laws mandate that seatbelts be installed in cars, forcing me to buy only cars with seatbelts installed), flood insurance for my house if I still have a bank note on it.... there is a long list of stuff the government forces me to buy.
Just a bunch of hot air from some idiots who are trying to raise money for midterm elections.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2010 : 04:02:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Rubicon95
"I mean run everything like the VA." -- From the veterans I've spoken with they hate the VA. I am willing to hear more sides to the issue.
"I believe Germany's system is an 8% tax which covers everything."
Germany also benefits from not having 2 wars and their military in over 130 countries. The sooner we stop F-ing over other countries -- the sooner we can help ourselves here.
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Veterans are no smarter than anyone else and will happily bitch about the hand that feeds them, but never will they actually bite it.
I've been receiving treatment for a variety on orthopaedic problems, both service-connected and otherwise, from the VA since the '70s. I can tell horror stories of waiting all day for a morning appointment that I showed up early for, but in the end, I did get that appointment. Over the last decade or so, this problem has pretty much cleared up due to staff increases and policy changes. Today, the biggest bitch I can come up with is the travel to get to the VA and I'm reimbursed for that -- I don't bitch very loudly about it.
The only cash I'm ever out is a modest co-payment for non service-connected medications such as blood pressure stuff, They even give me my glasses. They're not the best and most stylish spectacles in the world, but they keep me navigating satisfactory.
I've had several major surgeries including a total hip replacement (non-service-connected) and the only down side was once having one of Al Bundy's nurses -- who was a really pleasant lady; just, let us say, "strong featured." I have never been a penny out of pocket for any of it.
Rubicon, I fear the vets you were talking to were just "hanging around the scuttlebutt telling sea stories," and I'll bet you a silver dollar against a bent nickle that not one of them would willingly give up their VA care.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Health Care bill up for grabs
