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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 04/15/2010 : 12:54:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
The only solution, then, is to travel back in time and somehow prevent the invasion in the first place.
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I'm all for that.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 16:14:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Originally posted by Robb
Also, does it seem coincidental that half of Americans pay taxes and half of Americans vote in presidential elections? I think half of the American population does not have a stake in the political system so they don’t care to vote. I thinks tax reform in the US is needed and would help the voting turnout. |
Just half pay taxes? o_O |
I should have said income taxes. everyone that works pays social security and other taxes.
| Why don’t you and your country stay neutral just as they did in WWII. Wait, maybe not since Sweden sold iron ore to the Nazi’s to keep their war machine going. |
What does that have to do with anything?
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Nothing. I was just hacked off and posted before I thought. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 20:12:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
I should have said income taxes. everyone that works pays social security and other taxes. |
Isn't that just the first $15,000(ish) per household? That appears to be just 12% of households?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States#Household_income_in_the_US (Census chart, someone added percentages for wiki) |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 21:21:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Machi4velli
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Al Quaida decided to stomp on it by hitting strategic targets like WTC, Pentagon, and presumably the White House (too bad the didn't succeed, the would/could have been rid of Bush). |
Just verifying you said that, nice...  |
It may be hard for you to grasp, but many countries consider USA's foreign policies evil. And not just American government, but American corporations exploiting the third world without any real oversight, no checks for moral obligations.
People cheer for the other team. |
You're cheering for civilians to be killed, |
No I'm not. Unless they are Americans, of course. We need a little more tit-for-tat in the world, Al-Qaida managed to murder 3000 in WTC, Americans about a hundred+ times more in Iraq, which aren't even Al-Qaida, just Muslims. A little balance is welcome.
| if you're okay with that, fine. No one here is actually cheering for Iraqi civilians to die. All discussion has been aimed at minimizing future civilian deaths and the best way of doing it. |
Given US military records in Iraq, I'd say it's bloody time to let someone else try for a while.
| When you include America's constant pandering to Israel, despite its crimes against humanity in Gaza, then hell yes: it's true in general. |
By "in general," I mean that "American involvement is bad" is not true in the general case of American involvement in the Middle East -- i.e. there exist positives. Another example of a negative does not change this.
[/quote]Oh. I got the impression that you meant that in general, on the average, American involvement is good. Which I strongly disagree with.
Of course USA have done some positive things in the Middle East. But the evil stuff far out-weighs the good stuff. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 21:46:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
| You're cheering for civilians to be killed, |
No I'm not. Unless they are Americans, of course. |
Jesus, Mab. You're becoming more than a little bit fucking unhinged.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/15/2010 : 23:00:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
| You're cheering for civilians to be killed, |
No I'm not. Unless they are Americans, of course. |
Jesus, Mab. You're becoming more than a little bit fucking unhinged.
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I should have put an irony smilie there.
He was accusing me for cheering for civilians to be killed. I thought I might as well give him what he wants to read.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 00:32:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
I should have put an irony smilie there.
He was accusing me for cheering for civilians to be killed. I thought I might as well give him what he wants to read. |
All right, then. I mean I know you have issues with many of America's policies [as do many of us here], but it's not fair to blame all citizens. It's wrong to generalize like that. If you want to be fair about it, place the entire blame on "American southerners."
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 04/16/2010 00:47:28 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 02:52:27 [Permalink]
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Now that we're over that, I'd be interested in the fallout in USA - What is the media reporting over there?
I'd guess Fox News feels there's no harm playing a little video game as long as they're all Muslims getting killed... But what about CNN, CBS, and MSNBC?
What's Reuter doing about it?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Starman
SFN Regular
Sweden
1613 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 03:35:48 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Now that we're over that, I'd be interested in the fallout in USA - What is the media reporting over there?
I'd guess Fox News feels there's no harm playing a little video game as long as they're all Muslims getting killed... But what about CNN, CBS, and MSNBC?
What's Reuter doing about it? |
Rachel Maddow showed parts of it. |
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astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 11:15:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
We need a little more tit-for-tat in the world, Al-Qaida managed to murder 3000 in WTC, Americans about a hundred+ times more in Iraq, which aren't even Al-Qaida, just Muslims. A little balance is welcome.
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Where are you getting these figures? According to http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ there have been maybe just over 100,000 civilian deaths....total. And MOST of those have been committed by their own countrymen.....not US soldiers. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/16/2010 : 12:03:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by astropin
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
We need a little more tit-for-tat in the world, Al-Qaida managed to murder 3000 in WTC, Americans about a hundred+ times more in Iraq, which aren't even Al-Qaida, just Muslims. A little balance is welcome. |
Where are you getting these figures? According to http://www.iraqbodycount.org/database/ there have been maybe just over 100,000 civilian deaths....total. And MOST of those have been committed by their own countrymen.....not US soldiers.
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That's the number I recalled from a thread here at SFN a while back.
This made me have a peek at Wikipedia. They are reporting from several studies, with various numbers.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Iraq_War
| And MOST of those have been committed by their own countrymen.....not US soldiers. |
That's because the American invasion destabilised the country, but they did jack shit about it. I can't cite chapter and verse from the Geneva Convention, but I'm pretty sure I've read that the invading force is responsible for keeping law and order in the occupied territory. Which means that the sectarian violence is blood on the American war-machine's hands.
Saddam may have been a vile despot, but he kept relative order in the country. Strong-arming him into making political reforms would have been less bloody than the mess we have today.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Collateral murder? Looks like it.
