|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 04/23/2010 : 05:31:26
|
This is an idea I have been working on. I would like to get some feedback to help determine whether my idea holds any water or if I'm just plain crazy. This idea does not contain any of my political views and no I am not a Climate Change denier.
It is impossible for anything to be "unnatural".
Since humans are natural and we create things then everything we create is by default "natural". Plactics are made from naturally occuring elements that humans re-arranged. Climate change is a result of human interaction with the environment (arguably) therefore it would be a natural cycle in the life of the planet.
Thoughts?
|
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 07:04:05 [Permalink]
|
Depends on your definition of natural. Generally in these discussion two definitions are often confused, namely natural as in "occurring in nature" and natural as in "not artificial / not created by humans".
In the first definition, natural includes humans and human actions. A car is a natural phenomenon in that it is the result of completely natural occurrences (humans and their natural abilities to produce things).
In the second definition a car is artificial, it is the product of the manipulation of stuff by humans.
On the global warming issue I generally stick with anthropogenic or some derivative. In other words, caused by humans. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
 |
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
|
astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 07:14:59 [Permalink]
|
| I tend to concur that nothing is unnatural. I think the whole "artificial" definition is a bit of a cop out. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 07:53:57 [Permalink]
|
| Would not a supernatural concept be unnatural? Ok, so they don't exist, but assuming one did. |
I guess I'm talking more about things that are tangible |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 07:58:30 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by astropin
I tend to concur that nothing is unnatural. I think the whole "artificial" definition is a bit of a cop out.
|
How do you mean? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
|
|
|
astropin
SFN Regular
USA
970 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 08:04:29 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by tomk80
Originally posted by astropin
I tend to concur that nothing is unnatural. I think the whole "artificial" definition is a bit of a cop out.
|
How do you mean?
|
Well....I guess I mean that I don't like it. I realize the distinction....but tend to argue against it. |
I would rather face a cold reality than delude myself with comforting fantasies.
You are free to believe what you want to believe and I am free to ridicule you for it.
Atheism:
The result of an unbiased and rational search for the truth.
Infinitus est numerus stultorum |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 08:07:06 [Permalink]
|
I hereby introduce Exhibit 1 in refutation of the Original Post:
 |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/23/2010 08:16:17 |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 08:15:20 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by HalfMooner
I hereby introduce Exhibit 1 in refutation of the Original Post:
|
Do you think it's wierd that I find her extremely hot? |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 08:17:03 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Do you think it's wierd that I find her extremely hot?
|
Yes, but I accept that matters of taste vary. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/23/2010 08:18:46 |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 08:28:25 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Do you think it's wierd that I find her extremely hot?
|
Yes, but I accept that matters of taste vary.
|
I'd like to make an E-bone sandwich between her and Michelle Malkin. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 08:28:54 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Do you think it's wierd that I find her extremely hot?
|
Yes, but I accept that matters of taste vary.
|
Yeah. It's only natural...
(I wonder if when that photo was altered, did they think they were making Coulter look better? If not altered, is this evidence that there really is an Illuminati controlled by six foot shape shifting alien lizards?) |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 09:47:40 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
It is impossible for anything to be "unnatural".
Since humans are natural and we create things then everything we create is by default "natural". Plactics are made from naturally occuring elements that humans re-arranged. Climate change is a result of human interaction with the environment (arguably) therefore it would be a natural cycle in the life of the planet. |
There are two meanings to the word "natural," at least.
One, something is natural when it exists within the universe and doesn't violate any scientific laws ("natural" meaning "not supernatural").
Two, something is natural when it is not man-made ("natural" meaning "not artificial").
Artificial items, like plastic cups, are natural only in the sense that they are not supernatural. Don't conflate the two definitions.
Actually, the term "artificial" is context dependent. Beaver dams are "natural" in the sense that they aren't made by humans, but beavers with human-level intelligence and communications skills would probably agree that their constructs are not "natural" in that the beavers didn't just stumble across them. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 09:50:08 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I'd like to make an E-bone sandwich between her and Michelle Malkin. |
Thanks. Now I have to go get the brain bleach. Again. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 09:51:39 [Permalink]
|
| Actually, the term "artificial" is context dependent. Beaver dams are "natural" in the sense that they aren't made by humans, but beavers with human-level intelligence and communications skills would probably agree that their constructs are not "natural" in that the beavers didn't just stumble across them. |
What's the difference if the dam is made by beavers or humans? Either way it is taking a living being to manipulate the building materials. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 04/23/2010 : 09:57:41 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I'd like to make an E-bone sandwich between her and Michelle Malkin. |
Thanks. Now I have to go get the brain bleach. Again.
|
Have a good weekend fellas. I'm out. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
 |
|
It is impossible for anything to be Unnatural
