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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
 Posted - 05/08/2010 : 17:02:05
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Coolest Chameleon Ever!
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2010 : 22:35:34 [Permalink]
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Is that video made without (non-biological) special effects? (I mean, just who's cheating, the video maker or the lizard?) Are chameleons really that spectacularly color-changeable? That's almost approaching the ability of an octopus.
Assuming it's real, is the chameleon is soaking up color data though its skin, or is it remembering where each external color is, and using its brain to program the pigmentation of each area of its body? |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2010 : 03:49:07 [Permalink]
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Excellent! Thanks! I've never seen one presented that way before.
'mooner:
Is that video made without (non-biological) special effects? (I mean, just who's cheating, the video maker or the lizard?) Are chameleons really that spectacularly color-changeable? That's almost approaching the ability of an octopus.
Assuming it's real, is the chameleon is soaking up color data though its skin, or is it remembering where each external color is, and using its brain to program the pigmentation of each area of its body? |
Oh yeah, he's the real deal. They can change color, mostly some variation of green and brown ranging from very dark to pastel, very quickly and break the shades up to almost exactly match their background, while it's basic markings remain intact. It knows what to emulate due it it's remarkable eyes, which are in turrets and work independently of each other. This gives it a nearly 360 degree visual range. Alas, it does not have the repertoire nor the speed of an octopus. Would that it did. 
If you look at it's feet, you will see that it has four toes on each foot set opposite of each other; a very good feature for an arboreal lizard to have. The downside is that it cannot scuttle away like most of it's brethren and is very slow-moving. The upside is that it is highly efficient in the shrubbery in which it lives. It simply walks by grasping and often uses a slight jerking motion, which breaks up it's it's silhouette yet more. Also, it's tail is prehensile.
This is the guy with the sticky, ballistic tongue, not frogs and toads. Taken all in, it is one of he world's best bug-snipers because they can never see the damn' thing. Nor, indeed, can it's predators.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 08:15:47 [Permalink]
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| That is some really tasty evolution! |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 09:29:05 [Permalink]
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| Poor chameleon is going through an identity crisis! |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 14:17:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by podcat
Poor chameleon is going through an identity crisis!
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No chance of 'racial profiling' with these multi-colored chameleons.
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"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 19:07:07 [Permalink]
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Big deal. Check out this water fountain.
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Randy
SFN Regular
USA
1990 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 19:34:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by the_ignored
Big deal. Check out this water fountain.
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Eh..that ain't nuttin.
Beat this one. |
"We are all connected; to each other biologically, to the earth chemically, to the rest of the universe atomically."
"So you're made of detritus [from exploded stars]. Get over it. Or better yet, celebrate it. After all, what nobler thought can one cherish than that the universe lives within us all?"
-Neil DeGrasse Tyson |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2010 : 22:16:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Randy
Originally posted by the_ignored
Big deal. Check out this water fountain. |
Eh..that ain't nuttin.
Beat this one.
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Okay. I just stopped eating elephant meat from now on. If that's not a sign of human-level intelligence, I don't know what would be. It looks like elephants can really use that brain of theirs (which happens to be four times the size of homo sap's). |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 11:10:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Randy
Eh..that ain't nuttin.
Beat this one.
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Randy, could you please consider starting a separate thread on this? I think this video is so important and stunning in its implications that a whole separate discussion is needed. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 11:54:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
If that's not a sign of human-level intelligence, I don't know what would be. |
What if the elephant was merely trained to draw that image by rote and had no conscious understanding of what it represented? You seem to be making the assumption that the elephant itself decided to create this image in a one-off attempt. I'm not sure that assumption is warranted, Mooner.
From a BBC article on painting elephants: Elephant expert Dr Joyce Poole, who has studied the animals for 30 years, said she owned an elephant painting but had not come across animals painting their own images.
The Oslo-based scientist said: "I have seen elephants painting, but it was very free-flow.
"It's certainly capable of drawing an elephant, and could be trained, but might not really understand what it was doing." |
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 05/10/2010 11:59:32 |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 11:56:20 [Permalink]
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Still not as awesome as the mimic octopus, though it is fairly depressing to see Elephants which paint better than you do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8oQBYw6xxc |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 14:42:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
What if the elephant was merely trained to draw that image by rote and had no conscious understanding of what it represented? You seem to be making the assumption that the elephant itself decided to create this image in a one-off attempt. I'm not sure that assumption is warranted, Mooner. |
Yeah, my first thought was that the video represents a good example of an elephant being used as a tool with which a trainer paints. Elephants have been trained to do a lot of different things, with non-verbal commands. We really need a different perspective on that video, to show us what the trainer was doing the whole time. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:00:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Excellent! Thanks! I've never seen one presented that way before.
'mooner:
Is that video made without (non-biological) special effects? (I mean, just who's cheating, the video maker or the lizard?) Are chameleons really that spectacularly color-changeable? That's almost approaching the ability of an octopus.
Assuming it's real, is the chameleon is soaking up color data though its skin, or is it remembering where each external color is, and using its brain to program the pigmentation of each area of its body? |
Oh yeah, he's the real deal. They can change color, mostly some variation of green and brown ranging from very dark to pastel, very quickly and break the shades up to almost exactly match their background, while it's basic markings remain intact. It knows what to emulate due it it's remarkable eyes, which are in turrets and work independently of each other. This gives it a nearly 360 degree visual range. Alas, it does not have the repertoire nor the speed of an octopus. Would that it did.
If you look at it's feet, you will see that it has four toes on each foot set opposite of each other; a very good feature for an arboreal lizard to have. The downside is that it cannot scuttle away like most of it's brethren and is very slow-moving. The upside is that it is highly efficient in the shrubbery in which it lives. It simply walks by grasping and often uses a slight jerking motion, which breaks up it's it's silhouette yet more. Also, it's tail is prehensile.
This is the guy with the sticky, ballistic tongue, not frogs and toads. Taken all in, it is one of he world's best bug-snipers because they can never see the damn' thing. Nor, indeed, can it's predators.
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What kind is he? |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 15:54:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Machi4velli
Originally posted by filthy
Excellent! Thanks! I've never seen one presented that way before.
'mooner:
Is that video made without (non-biological) special effects? (I mean, just who's cheating, the video maker or the lizard?) Are chameleons really that spectacularly color-changeable? That's almost approaching the ability of an octopus.
Assuming it's real, is the chameleon is soaking up color data though its skin, or is it remembering where each external color is, and using its brain to program the pigmentation of each area of its body? |
Oh yeah, he's the real deal. They can change color, mostly some variation of green and brown ranging from very dark to pastel, very quickly and break the shades up to almost exactly match their background, while it's basic markings remain intact. It knows what to emulate due it it's remarkable eyes, which are in turrets and work independently of each other. This gives it a nearly 360 degree visual range. Alas, it does not have the repertoire nor the speed of an octopus. Would that it did.
If you look at it's feet, you will see that it has four toes on each foot set opposite of each other; a very good feature for an arboreal lizard to have. The downside is that it cannot scuttle away like most of it's brethren and is very slow-moving. The upside is that it is highly efficient in the shrubbery in which it lives. It simply walks by grasping and often uses a slight jerking motion, which breaks up it's it's silhouette yet more. Also, it's tail is prehensile.
This is the guy with the sticky, ballistic tongue, not frogs and toads. Taken all in, it is one of he world's best bug-snipers because they can never see the damn' thing. Nor, indeed, can it's predators.
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What kind is he?
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Hard to say; there are lots of species of these things. It looks a little like those I saw in Spain.
It's almost certainly a captive bred specimen. Most exotic lizards and snakes in the pet trade are these days. I was aquainted with a breeder who worked with three species, one of them jacksoni.
Jackson's Chameleon
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 05/10/2010 : 16:26:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by HalfMooner
If that's not a sign of human-level intelligence, I don't know what would be. |
What if the elephant was merely trained to draw that image by rote and had no conscious understanding of what it represented? You seem to be making the assumption that the elephant itself decided to create this image in a one-off attempt. I'm not sure that assumption is warranted, Mooner.
From a BBC article on painting elephants: Elephant expert Dr Joyce Poole, who has studied the animals for 30 years, said she owned an elephant painting but had not come across animals painting their own images.
The Oslo-based scientist said: "I have seen elephants painting, but it was very free-flow.
"It's certainly capable of drawing an elephant, and could be trained, but might not really understand what it was doing." |
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This is ceratinly something orders of magnitude beyond the "Clever Hans" horse mathematician trick of a century ago.
Even if it was trained by rote, that elephant seems to be aware of the overall composition, coming back at times to improve existing lines. Just being able to know where each stroke begins and ends entails a good amount of intelligence. I'd surely like to see just how their trainers work with them. That could clear up a whole lot. According to the BBC article, it took the trainers just one month to train the elephants to make their images.
Wikipedia has an article on the elephant brain. The article includes a section on elephant "art". |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Filthy, this one's fer you......
