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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2010 : 02:15:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse |
| I hope you realise the difference between the actions of one couple, |
The couple pulled this off at multiple ACORN offices. |
And why did the couple do this? Were they really attempting to "set a business" or were they only joking? There's a big fucking difference, because if the ACORN-employee saw through the ruise, then they were playing along for kicks. Which means they weren't really bad people, they were just having a spell of poor judgement.
| compared to half of the picket carriers at every tea-bagger rally. |
You have drank the kool-aid my fine Swedish friend. Your 50% number is totally laughable,
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Not when I read the signs. I never said that 50% of the entire movement was, but many signs were bad. Like the one filthy posted.
| even to the hardest of hearts amongst the tea-party haters, and also shows that you have no interest in reality but, only an interest in whipping up a frenzy amongst your peers by flippantly playing the race card against anyone whom you view as your opponent. |
You obviously know Jack-shit about me.
| Where are all the right-wing extremist attacks that the left wing propaganda machine promised were coming after all the huge tea-party rallies we saw this spring? |
There weren't any huge rallies, other than in the imagination of the corporate media and it's sheep. Funny thing that you believe there were huge rallies.
| To spin this off as some group who is obsessed with the fact that BO is only 1/2 white is just a lame attempt to smear one's opponent's character rather then to debate the issues and policy that the two factions seem to disagree upon. |
Now you're talking about the "birther" movement. Oh, wait, they are practically the same. They just tried to manufacture a way to legally remove Obama from office.
| Also, you need to get your satire-detection kit repaired. |
Just had it in on the scope and everything checked out fine.
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Then you're in dire need of a second opinion.  |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
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Support American Troops in Iraq:
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 02:23:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Many rules of society and social programs in this country have been tilted in favor of blacks with the full intent of helping them succeed. Again name me one country where blacks have more of opportunity for the "great American dream" then, well, right here in America, home of the Rooney Rule. |
Poor people who are black (or white), who can't pay their medical bills don't care about "the great American Dream". They just want their kidney transplant, their cancer cut out of them, or their insulin.
In commie-pink monarchy of Sweden, they get that, regardless of race.
No racial card needs to be played. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 07/15/2010 02:25:19 |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2010 : 02:31:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
moran.
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LMFAO
Just when I was starting to think you were a lost cause, you show that you have a sense of humour. Perhaps I misjudged you.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 07/15/2010 : 03:57:44 [Permalink]
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Never, in all of my years of lowering the property values in these fora, have I seen so many straw men, reeking of herring, put forth in a single thread. Bill, you give the Gish Gallop a whole, new meaning.
Lessee now, the OP was on racist teabaggers, wasn't it? You have yet to demonstrate that any of them are not racist -- a person is known by the company he keeps, eh?
I have read, but not bothered to confirm, that the teabag party isn't all that large, and that would seem to be the case. Also, they seem to lack any semblance of organization and their leaders(?) have no control over them. If they did, and wanted to gain some respectability, they would expel the actual racists such as the "NIGGAR" scumbag and get serious on forming a party. As they are, they're only different from a lynch mob by degree. They lack a rope. And concievably the dexterity to tie a knot.
As an aside, I seem to recall that the ACORN pimp (good name for him) got busted for screwing around with the telephone connections of some Democratic senator or other. As I recall, he got off with a slap on the wrist that should have been administered with a shovel, but wasn't. Anyone remember that?
As a further aside, all of my health care is free except for a modest co-payment for blood pressure meds. Y'know what; I'd like to see every citizen get the same deal that I have....
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 06:39:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Never, in all of my years of lowering the property values in these fora, have I seen so many straw men, reeking of herring, put forth in a single thread. Bill, you give the Gish Gallop a whole, new meaning.
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Well history on this forum is that things can quickly get off topic and head down all different tangents. I think it's time to stop for a second and hit the reset button.
Now basically your statement, observation and conclusion has been that the tea party should be deemed a racist movement in the public and political realm. You point to men such as Tom Tancredo and Dale Robertson and appoint them the national leaders of the tea party movement. You then next point to a statement or a sign from these men that you find racist or offensive and condemn the entire tea party movement as a whole with one big swoop of your brush for the actions of these men.
Let me give you another example. You point to one sign in Iowa paid for by "the tea party" which pictures the president with former dictators and then you condemn "the tea party" nation wide, a group numbering in the millions, for the actions of a few which you find reprehensible. You somehow tie racism into this, all though I will never understand how, simply for them calling the man a socialist? I of coarse said BS to your all sweeping generalization of the tea party, based only on few individuals out of millions, and your well constructed strawman, based only on a few men and a sign.
Some think the tea party is a new political party, and on some levels it may qualify as a loose nit alternative party, but first and for most the tea party is a movement. The big bang, the moment of creation, the genesis of the tea party movement can be traced back to the Ron Paul bid for the presidency and the first round of wall street and bank bailouts, which were initiated by GWB. This is what started the very first "tea party" protests the original government bail out of Wall Street and BO had not even been elected president yet. In fact tea in tea party was turned into an acronym : Taxed Enough Already
So as we see to much government spending and involvement in private lives was, and remains, the orginal battle cry of the tea party movement and not racism.
With the bailout of wall street, by GWB, starting the wheels in motion the train only gained major speed with the stimulus bill, more wall street bail outs and the heath care bill which followed. The tea party movement viewed all these packages as more government wasteful spending and really felt the federal government was out of control. As the protests across the country grew all different factions and splinter groups popped up all over the county under the "tea party" banner. These were stand alone groups who were not under or being directed by any national tea party federation. I think there have been some who have tried to unite all the splinter groups and factions across the country under one banner but it sounds like this may be a loose nit organization at best.
The Tea Party movement is a United States movement that emerged in 2009 through a series of locally and nationally coordinated protests. The protests are partially in response to several Federal laws: the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 ("bailout"), the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 ("stimulus package"), and the 2009–2010 health care reform bills.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement |
Let me give you another example. You point to a sign in Iowa that puts Obama up next to dictators and then you paint all the millions of people nation wide who claim to affiliate with some version of the tea party with your racist brush. But when we shine a light on the deal we get to the real story.
The co-founder of the roughly 200-person group said the billboard was intended to send an anti-socialist message. But Bob Johnson admitted Tuesday that the message may have gotten lost amid the images of fascist and communist leaders.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11154885 |
So we see that the sign was generated by a splinter group of the tea party movement know as the Northern Iowa Tea Party who have around 200 active members. This is a stand alone group who makes decisions all on their own. Next we see this:
But others in the tea party movement criticized the sign.
"That's just a waste of money, time, resources and it's not going to further our cause," said Shelby Blakely, a leaders of the Tea Party Patriots, a national group. "It's not going to help our cause. It's going to make people think that the tea party is full of a bunch of right-wing fringe people, and that's not true."
Blakely also expressed outrage at linking Obama to Hitler, the leader of Nazi Germany who oversaw the killing of 6 million Jews and whose invasions of neighboring countries led to World War II.
"When you compare Obama to Hitler, that to me does a disservice to the Jews who both survived and died in the Holocaust and to the Germans who lived under Nazi regime rule," Blakely said.
John White, an Iowa coordinator of the Tea Party Patriots, said that he can understand the North Iowa group's perception that Obama is "Hitler-esque," but he thinks the billboard is offensive and unproductive. White said that he planned to discuss the matter with national tea party officials.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=11154885 |
So as we see not only do we have many different factions and splinter groups from the tea party movement but many times these splinter groups are not on the same page with one another. Here several splinter groups are condemning another splinter groups for actions they contrived all on their own.
So now can you at least begin to understand why I claim that you paint your racist accusations with a wide brush? You have singled out a handful of splinter groups out of hundreds and pointed to single individuals out of millions and deemed the actions of these minute few as racist and then condemned and dismissed the entire tea party movement nationwide based on nothing but a self-created generalization. This is no different then if I pointed to some of the insane and laughable ramblings of Jesse Jackson throughout the years and then painted the whole civil rights movement as those who use race only to divide and for political gain. Obviously I have just made an unfounded sweeping generalization no different then yours.
Another thing. When you make statements such as, "I have never seen the right in such a frenzy before and the only thing that I can see different is that the president is now a black man." (paraphrasing) how do you just dismiss the presidencies of Carter and Clinton to arrive at this conclusion? Carter and Clinton both threw the right into a tizzy. Hillarycare was the single biggest reason for the 94 republican revolution.
Also don't you thing the president is going just a little over the top when he has to come out and list al Qaeda as a racist group? Do we really need to now call them a racist terrorist organization who kills indiscriminately rather then just a terrorist organization who kills indiscriminately?
| As a further aside, all of my health care is free except for a modest co-payment for blood pressure meds. |
Just because you are not paying for it in no way makes it free. Somebody is paying.
| Y'know what; I'd like to see every citizen get the same deal that I have.... |
Who wouldn't? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 07:13:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
| Y'know what; I'd like to see every citizen get the same deal that I have.... |
Who wouldn't?
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The Tea Party for one. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 07:21:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
why did the couple do this? Were they really attempting to "set a business" or were they only joking? There's a big fucking difference, because if the ACORN-employee saw through the ruise, then they were playing along for kicks. Which means they weren't really bad people, they were just having a spell of poor judgement. |
The performance in that video was so laughably pathetic - something straight out of some cheesy Hollywood stereotype of what a "pimp" looks like - that if the ACORN employees took them seriously, they (the employees) needed to be fired for stupidity . |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 07:50:00 [Permalink]
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Ah, I see you've calmed down a bit....
I admit that my remarks were a bit fulsome, as they often are, but I am still very close to the cash on this one. Therefore, I must ask: The sign put-uppers were, as you say, a splinter group, but why is not the national organization -- if such really exists -- condemning the act and at least threatening to kick them out of the party? Racism ain't hittin' on shit in this day & age.
I don't recall much about the Carter & Clinton hassles -- I'm old; cut me some slack -- but I recall Reagan screwing Carter in the election with a deal with the Iranians over their hostages. As for Clinton, his was one of the most successful presidencies in memory, albeit he fucked up a few times as well.
Bush was a walking train wreck, 'nuff said.
Actually Bill, I paid for my health case, just not with money. In this day and age, with medical facilities practically everywhere, I see no reason why it should not be a citizen's right. Now,, I know that screams of hypochondriacs abusing the system will come out of that, but they should be sorted out in triage and treated for their mental problems. But no matter, it ain't gonna happen; we've got wars to fight.
Back to the teabaggers -- hey, they initially coined the name, therefore they own it  -- Do you think that they will exert any influence on the next couple of elections and if so, how much?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 08:16:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Y'know what; I'd like to see every citizen get the same deal that I have.... |
Who wouldn't?
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The Tea Party for one.
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Which one? There are hundreds of tea party groups unorganized under the tea party movement banner. And I am sure most affiliated with a tea party movement would be in favor of free health care for all but they just happen to deal with reality rather then ignore it. The federal government has proven time and time again that they are incapable of running such a program. Heck they took social security, which started off with noble intentions, and turned it into the biggest ponzi scheme the world has ever seen. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 09:03:20 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by filthy |
Ah, I see you've calmed down a bit....
I admit that my remarks were a bit fulsome, as they often are, but I am still very close to the cash on this one. Therefore, I must ask: The sign put-uppers were, as you say, a splinter group, but why is not the national organization -- if such really exists -- condemning the act and at least threatening to kick them out of the party? Racism ain't hittin' on shit in this day & age. |
That's my point. I don't think there is one end all be all national organization that represents and speaks for the entire tea party nationwide. And if there is it appears to be a loose nit organization at best. Take the Iowa sign for example. Here you have one splinter group who puts up a sign by their own free will and then you have several other splinter groups who oppose the sign also by their own free will. So it's awfully hard to brand the entire tea party movement as racist when you have so many stand alone entities running around doing their own thing. It's like having 50 states who are a stand on their own entity but yet are all tied together under the guidance of the federal government. Except for in this case there is no federal government to tie the individual states (tea party groups) together under one banner. So what you are doing amounts to calling people who come from the state of Florida racists because the state of Arizona has adopted a policy that you see as racist.
| I don't recall much about the Carter & Clinton hassles -- I'm old; cut me some slack -- but I recall Reagan screwing Carter in the election with a deal with the Iranians over their hostages. As for Clinton, his was one of the most successful presidencies in memory, albeit he fucked up a few times as well. |
Clinton left the county at the end of his 2nd term in the best fiscal condition of any president in my life time. I will give him his props there. But back to my point. Back in 93 Hillarycare was sold to the rightwing as socialized medicine and the right about blew a gasket in effort to defeat this and the result was the republicans taking the house and the senate in the 94 mid-terms. First time they had held both houses at the same time in like over 40 years. All thanks to the rights perceived notion that Bill was trying to pass socialized medicine. So how do you dismiss that part of history and claim that the only reason the right is flipping out over socialized medicine today is because a black man is president?
| Bush was a walking train wreck, 'nuff said. |
I have plenty of beefs with GWB as well. Hiding the cost of two wars from the books, passing a prescription drug bill with no way to pay for it except through deficit spending, initiating the original wall street and bank bailouts etc... etc...
| Actually Bill, I paid for my health case, just not with money. In this day and age, with medical facilities practically everywhere, I see no reason why it should not be a citizen's right. Now,, I know that screams of hypochondriacs abusing the system will come out of that, but they should be sorted out in triage and treated for their mental problems. But no matter, it ain't gonna happen; we've got wars to fight. |
We will have to save the heath care discussions for another time.
| Back to the teabaggers -- hey, they initially coined the name, therefore they own it -- |
I am not affiliated with any tea group so it really does not bother me either way.
| Do you think that they will exert any influence on the next couple of elections and if so, how much? |
Oh sure they will make an influence but how much I think is anybodies guess. Right now it seems the dems have lost most of their momentum but, a lot can change in 3 months so I try not to make to many bold predictions.
What do you think of the president calling out Osama bin Laden as a racist? Over the top? |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 10:26:35 [Permalink]
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This one still just cracks me up. Can you imagine Osama sitting there in his cave and then one of his soldiers comes in and tells him that Obama has just called him a racist. Of coarse he knows the Jesse Jackson protest and boycott of al Qaeda will be next and who needs that kind of publicity? So Osama has his assistance cut a "donation" check to the Rainbow Push organization from the al Qaeda genral funds to help keep his terrorist organization's good name from being dragged through the mud in a Jesse Jackson shakedown.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/07/president-obama-white-house-al-qaeda-is-racist.html
Now obama is going to be jawing back and forth with al Qaeda, as well as the tea party, and the state of Arizona, and all the others states following their lead over why he thinks the entire world is racist.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/21/obama.muslim.remark/index.html
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"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:43:09 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
This one still just cracks me up. Can you imagine Osama sitting there in his cave and then one of his soldiers comes in and tells him that Obama has just called him a racist. Of coarse he knows the Jesse Jackson protest and boycott of al Qaeda will be next and who needs that kind of publicity? So Osama has his assistance cut a "donation" check to the Rainbow Push organization from the al Qaeda genral funds to help keep his terrorist organization's good name from being dragged through the mud in a Jesse Jackson shakedown.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/07/president-obama-white-house-al-qaeda-is-racist.html
Now obama is going to be jawing back and forth with al Qaeda, as well as the tea party, and the state of Arizona, and all the others states following their lead over why he thinks the entire world is racist.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/21/obama.muslim.remark/index.html
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Your meds don't work that long, do they Bill Scott? |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:51:21 [Permalink]
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Now let's be clear, Bill. Obama is NOT quoted as saying those "Al Qaeda is racist" quotes. In fact, it is an unnamed "official".
I know, I know, you're going to jump on the old "an Obama official is the same as Obama himself", but the very clear fact is Obama did NOT say those quotes, despite your deliberately misleading (aka lying) assertions.
Ahh yes. Facts: the conservative's kryptonite. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 11:57:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
This one still just cracks me up. Can you imagine Osama sitting there in his cave and then one of his soldiers comes in and tells him that Obama has just called him a racist. Of coarse he knows the Jesse Jackson protest and boycott of al Qaeda will be next and who needs that kind of publicity? So Osama has his assistance cut a "donation" check to the Rainbow Push organization from the al Qaeda genral funds to help keep his terrorist organization's good name from being dragged through the mud in a Jesse Jackson shakedown.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2010/07/president-obama-white-house-al-qaeda-is-racist.html
Now obama is going to be jawing back and forth with al Qaeda, as well as the tea party, and the state of Arizona, and all the others states following their lead over why he thinks the entire world is racist.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/11/21/obama.muslim.remark/index.html
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I hadn't heard anything about this.
Is al Qaeda and bin Laden racist? I would say yes, although perhaps not in the way we use the term. Their racism stems more from a religious angle. To them, every non-moslem is beneath them and the African blacks are simply in the way. Also, they're easy targets which suits the pigfuckers just fine. Whether or not they value black life less than others is really a moot point. They value everybody's life as less than their own.
When you come right down to it, al Qaeda is no more than a pack of cheap hacks who got super lucky on 9/11 due to the inattention of the Bush administration, et al. I don't see that happening again, not in this country. They've succeeded in giving us a healthy enough paranoia that security is now quite tight. Let someone, of mid-eastern descent or otherwise, try to learn to just fly without learning to take off and land, and see what happens.....
Obama should tell them to go piss in their hats.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 07/15/2010 : 12:10:35 [Permalink]
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| Originally posted by Fripp |
| Now let's be clear, Bill. Obama is NOT quoted as saying those "Al Qaeda is racist" quotes. In fact, it is an unnamed "official". |
The fact that the administration would choose to ramp up the racist rhetoric even further by calling out al Qaeda as a racist group is embarrassing us in front of the whole world. If he, or his administration, would concentrate half as much on the real issues and give the whole race card thing a break for awhile his poll numbers might actually start to go up instead of down. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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NAACP: Klan with a tan.
