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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
 Posted - 07/19/2010 : 06:03:01
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I don't know if any of you have insight into serotonin production. I have been doing research into how to increase serotonin WITHOUT using anti-depressants. I have been focusing on three substances; St. john's wort, tryptophan supplements, and 5-HTP supplements.
Unfortunately, there is a TON of woo-woo "info" on these (especially with St. john's wort) and I have been trying to track down reputable studies on the efficacy of the above listed compounds.
Can anyone provide insight, be it testimonial or links to studies, that can help me in this? Or if anyone has anything else to look into/try?
FYI, I get tons of exercise and am pretty good at following a healthy diet.
Thanks in advance
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"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Rubicon95
Skeptic Friend
USA
220 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 06:33:36 [Permalink]
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From my personal experience, it was a combination of L-Arginine, B-12, and vitamin C. I read of it in the Nutritions Alamnac. I was battling depression (malaise) from the levels of my caffeine intake (4-6 mugs of coffee a day..naw wasn't addicted). Course reducing myself to 1 cup a day also helped. If you think that its dietary related, do a food diary and speak to a nutritionist. The body produces serotonin but only in the presences of certain natural chemicals.
If its bio-chemical as in you can't produce, don't mess around.
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 07:18:49 [Permalink]
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| Malaise is a good way to explain me, as well. It's not that I'm a perpetual gloomy gus, but i've "battled" with self-esteem/motivation issues most of my life. But it's not so serious for drastic measures. Most people wouldn't even know I have any problems at all. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 07:38:27 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Unfortunately, there is a TON of woo-woo "info" on these (especially with St. john's wort) and I have been trying to track down reputable studies on the efficacy of the above listed compounds.
Can anyone provide insight, be it testimonial or links to studies, that can help me in this? Or if anyone has anything else to look into/try?
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Skip google.com and use scholar.google.com instead. This should only get you web pages from peer reviewed articles (and symposia and some other bits and pieces). The first hit I get trying the above is (using "St john's wort" as the search terms):
St John's wort for depression: meta-analysis of randomised controlled trials
K Linde, M Berner, M Egger, C Mulrow - The British Journal of Psychiatry, 2005 - RCP
Oh, and I get roughly 103,000 hits. Do yourself a favor and try to read the review articles only (some are free to download). |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 07:41:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hawks
Skip google.com and use scholar.google.com instead.
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Excellent. That's a LOT of help. I work in IT but I never fail to learn something new everyday (not that an IT degree is necessary to know about scholar.google.com). |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:01:17 [Permalink]
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| I was under the impression that a few years ago, big studies showed St. John's Wort was no better than placebo for depression. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:20:13 [Permalink]
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Yep, no benificial effects found.
ref.
JAMA. 2002;287(14):1807-1814, 1840-1847, 1853-1854
article on study
Cant get link to work...sorry
medscape.com
In this double-blind, parallel group study conducted at 12 academic or community clinics, 340 outpatients received St. John's wort 900 mg to 1500 mg daily, sertraline 50 mg to 100 mg daily, or placebo for 8 weeks, followed by up to 18 weeks of double-blind continuation treatment in responders. All subjects had a diagnosis of major depression, a score 20 or higher on the Hamilton Depression (HAM-D) scale, and a score 60 or lower on the Global Assessment of Functioning scale at baseline.
Neither St. John's wort nor sertraline proved to be more effective than placebo on primary measures of effectiveness including change on HAM-D score from baseline to 8 weeks and rate of full response on the Clinical Global Impressions scale (CGI) or HAM-D. Full response occurred in 31.9% of patients receiving placebo, 23.9% of those receiving St. John's wort, and 24.8% of patients receiving sertraline. Although sertraline was better than placebo on the CGI improvement scale (P=.02), a secondary outcome measure, St. John's wort showed no effectiveness on any measure. |
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| Edited by - BigPapaSmurf on 07/19/2010 08:25:50 |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:37:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
Yep, no benificial effects found.
ref.
JAMA. 2002;287(14):1807-1814, 1840-1847, 1853-1854
article on study
Cant get link to work...sorry
medscape.com
In this double-blind, parallel group study conducted at 12 academic or community clinics, 340 outpatients received St. John's wort 900 mg to 1500 mg daily, sertraline 50 mg to 100 mg daily, or placebo for 8 weeks, followed by up to 18 weeks of double-blind continuation treatment in responders. All subjects had a diagnosis of major depression, a score 20 or higher on the Hamilton Depression (HAM-D) scale, and a score 60 or lower on the Global Assessment of Functioning scale at baseline.
Neither St. John's wort nor sertraline proved to be more effective than placebo on primary measures of effectiveness including change on HAM-D score from baseline to 8 weeks and rate of full response on the Clinical Global Impressions scale (CGI) or HAM-D. Full response occurred in 31.9% of patients receiving placebo, 23.9% of those receiving St. John's wort, and 24.8% of patients receiving sertraline. Although sertraline was better than placebo on the CGI improvement scale (P=.02), a secondary outcome measure, St. John's wort showed no effectiveness on any measure. |
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And this from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._John's_Wort#Major_depressive_disorder)
An analysis of twenty-nine clinical trials with more than five thousand patients was conducted by Cochrane Collaboration. The review concluded that extracts of St. John's wort were superior to placebo in patients with major depression. St. John's wort had similar efficacy to standard antidepressants. The rate of side effects was twice lower than for newer SSRI antidepressants and five times lower than for older tricyclic antidepressants.[6] However, this review also noted that studies more favourably supporting the effects of St. John's wort as an antidepressant, were predominantly from German-speaking countries. The authors could not rule out the possibility that some smaller studies from those countries were flawed and reported overoptimistic results.
National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine (NCCAM) and other NIH-affiliated organizations hold that St John's wort has minimal or no effects beyond placebo in the treatment of major depression[7] This conclusion is based primarily on only one trial of 340 volunteers, with negative outcome conducted by NCCAM.[9] The authors of the study themselves, as well as several others, pointed out the low assay sensitivity of this study, and how only limited conclusions can be drawn from its results.[10][11] The same study also indicated that sertraline (Zoloft) has no positive effects vs. the same placebo. |
The second paragraph of above seems to call the results into question. The positive effects in the study quoted in the first paragraph are also questionable due to methodologies in the studies.
Hence my confusion...
And if it's on Wiki, it has to be true |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 08:52:32 [Permalink]
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| It should also be noted that St. John's Wort can interact badly with other medications. Because it's marketed as a food supplement, the warnings are not necessary. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 12:44:11 [Permalink]
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Doesn't light as in light therapy have a connection with serotonin?
A search for serotonin light therapy gives about 50k hits on scholar.google.
Maybe that could be helpful?
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Serotonin
