|
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 08:50:05 [Permalink]
|
dglas:
Kil. I am still who I am; the very same guy as before, as all along. No more and no less thoughtful than before. I am still trying, against all odds, to raise the level of discourse, as always. The only difference is, this time everyone is too wrapped up in polarized, partisan hysteria (Dude's influence I assume) to notice - which you will note, they have attempted persistently to project onto me. |
So what's with the strawmen? Have you always included strawmen in your arguments, and maybe I haven't noticed until now? The issue of you erecting strawmen has come up all over this thread. You have yet to either correct or even acknowledge that criticism, even when, in the post of mine that you partially responded to I pointed out a complete misrepresentation of what we are saying about the Constitution. Is it that what you are trying to get across transcends critical thinking, freeing you to ignore your logical fallacies?
Show me where I have been hysterically partisan in my defense of the Constitution. This is an issue that you brought up. Was that just a hit and run and you don't really care about mine or other peoples replies to your assertion that the Constitution must be changed either now or later to deal with Islam? Why are you making up shit that we didn't say? How can that behavior raise the level of discourse, when we both know that strawmen and other logical fallacies are stumbling blocks that bring real discourse to a screeching halt unless dealt with? I'm at a loss here.
Vilifying Dave or Dude or Tom does not erase erase the fact that you have not addressed the actual substantive part of this debate. I picked a point, explained why I think you are wrong about it, and you have so far continued to ignore what I said. Worse, you turned it into something I didn't say. What's with that?
And yeah. I made a personal attempt to reason with you. I did that because outside of this debate, I have considered you a friend. Sue me... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
 |
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 09:55:42 [Permalink]
|
A mob of anti-mosque protesters turned hostile when they surrounded and physically threatened dark-skinned man they presumed to be Muslim. The man turned out to be a construction worker at Ground Zero. Elsewhere, a drunk bigot slashed a Muslim cab driver with a knife. Meanwhile, Pamela Geller, conservative blogger and Ayn Rand worshipper, writes on her website Jihad Watch that accusations that bigotry and racism are fueling opposition to the mosque are just part of "the whole tired laundry list of Leftist cliches."
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 08/26/2010 11:15:02 |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 10:27:02 [Permalink]
|
| And Jon Stewart asks, "how about we try a new system where we don't give a fuck about what they [jihadists] think?" Also in that episode, Aasif Mandvi learns how much Tennesseeans know about his terrorist brothers. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
 Posted - 08/26/2010 : 10:27:48 [Permalink]
|
| I changed my mind again. Now I hate the mosque haters again. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 10:36:59 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I changed my mind again. Now I hate the mosque haters again. |
A flip-flopper? Get him, boys! |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 10:56:10 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I changed my mind again. Now I hate the mosque haters again. |
A flip-flopper? Get him, boys!
|
Yes, I do wear flip-flops frequently. I have also been subjected to the Brett Favre waffling for many years. Maybe those things have something to do with it. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 11:48:56 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
Yes, I do wear flip-flops frequently. |
At least these days, it's much more difficult to cut your heel on a pop-top. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 12:05:35 [Permalink]
|
It appears to me that Kil nailed the essence of this "controversy" with his commentary back on page 1:There wasn't supposed to be anything inflammatory about it. This controversy is completely political and absolute bullshit.
|
The cacophony of Republican Goebbleing is obviously just their patented bleating to the stupid masses of Fox News viewers that are patheticly eager to hear and believe anything that comes from that propaganda machine; and the Democrats, like Reid, that have taken a anti-Mosque stand, are doing the worst kind of pandering to what they consider to be their political base - totally inconsiderate of Constitutional issues, thinking only of the November elections.
This is the worst kind of a political tempest in a teapot, and would not even exist if it were not an election year. Unfortunately, we are largely a nation of mindless sheep, and the Republicans are very adept at creating and fueling conflagrations of fear in the electorate.
The position that Islam, as a religion, is a dangerous enemy of America is absurd. Christianity is far more likely to damage the fabric of our society - witness the "Christian" Tea Party, the high percentage of politicians in office that profess fundamental Christianity as their guiding political philosophy, in the face of the fact that we are supposed to have a government separated as to church from state.
Dglas, although consistently and reliably perceptive and rational on many issues in these Forums, is almost hysterical in his fear of the current power of Islamic zealotry to damage the society of the Western World.
I do feel that at some time in the future, if there is uncontrolled spread of nuclear arms and enormous military power to rogue Islamic nations like Iran, and if the radical sects of the Islam faith like Al Quaida are allowed to expand exponentially; radical Islam could pose a serious threat to the rest of the world.
However, when you consider that only twenty years separated WWI from WWII, and it has been sixty five years since the close of WWII; perhaps we have learned a few lessons about the containment of expansionist regimes. As to the potential "threat" of a new Mosque at ground zero - or anywhere else, for that matter; that appears to me to be a paranoid and unwarranted concern. |
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 12:38:42 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by BigPapaSmurf
I thought it went "If you knock everyone else down, you will never have to raise yourself up."
|
It does, but the "patriotic" morons would rather not have to raise themselves to any level higher than the cess-pit they already infest. That requires thought and energy, and might benefit someone other than themselves. More better to knock everyone else down to their level, then stand triumhphant; the lords of sewage.
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
|
|
|
|
filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 12:53:09 [Permalink]
|
A case in point:
NEW YORK — In the latest in a spate of anti-Muslim incidents over the last two days, an intoxicated man entered a mosque in Queens on Wednesday evening and proceeded to urinate on prayer rugs, New York police officials said.
The man, identified as Omar Rivera, reportedly shouted anti-Muslim epithets and called worshippers who had gathered for evening prayer “terrorists.” One witness told the New York Post the man was “very clearly intoxicated” and had a beer bottle in his hand at the time.
“He stuck up his middle finger and cursed at everyone,” Mustapha Sadouki, who was at the mosque at the time, said. “He calls us terrorists, yet he comes into our mosque and terrorizes other people.”
|
Makes you really proud to be an American, doesn't it?
|
"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
|
|
|
|
H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 08/26/2010 : 14:19:52 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by filthy
A case in point:
NEW YORK — In the latest in a spate of anti-Muslim incidents over the last two days, an intoxicated man entered a mosque in Queens on Wednesday evening and proceeded to urinate on prayer rugs, New York police officials said.
The man, identified as Omar Rivera, reportedly shouted anti-Muslim epithets and called worshippers who had gathered for evening prayer “terrorists.” One witness told the New York Post the man was “very clearly intoxicated” and had a beer bottle in his hand at the time.
“He stuck up his middle finger and cursed at everyone,” Mustapha Sadouki, who was at the mosque at the time, said. “He calls us terrorists, yet he comes into our mosque and terrorizes other people.”
|
Makes you really proud to be an American, doesn't it?
|
That occurred about 200 yards down the street from where I live. I feel like stopping in and apologizing for all the ignorant bigots currently polluting my country.
|
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
|
|
|
Ricky
SFN Die Hard
USA
4907 Posts |
|
|
Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 08:42:00 [Permalink]
|
Originally posted by Ricky
CFI urges that ground zero be kept religion-free.
I find it hard to believe an entire skeptic organization can miss the point. But there it is. It's actually with this email I got that I've decided to unsubscribe from CFI.
|
Well, actually they are saying that they oppose any facility that is for any religion. But yeah, I think they have missed the point while trying to look at the larger picture... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
|
|
|
Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 12:28:11 [Permalink]
|
| Greg Laden has chimed in, in agreement with CFI. But if Ground Zero is going to be some sort of religion-free territory, we should fire all the religious people who are working there, right now, on the Freedom Tower. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
|
|
|
tomk80
SFN Regular
Netherlands
1278 Posts |
Posted - 08/27/2010 : 12:48:40 [Permalink]
|
| yeah, but Greg Laden already lost me on anything to do with this topic a few days ago. |
Tom
`Contrariwise,' continued Tweedledee, `if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic.'
-Through the Looking Glass by Lewis Caroll- |
|
|
 |
|
|
|
I… WTF…?
