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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
 Posted - 11/12/2010 : 10:31:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dave W.
Robb, if you're going to consider criticisms to be insults, then you're never going to get that civil discussion you want.
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Saying someone is not doing their job is fine if you have examples, but saying get in the back of the car and shut up is insulting.
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Yeah, that totally fucking compares to calling the prez a nazi socialist kenyan muslim with a fake birth certificate who is the greatest threat to the US (bigger threat than all terrorists and foreign enemies combined).
"I won the election, I'm the boss now, so you guys don't get to drive the car. get in the back seat and stop demanding the keys."
or
"You are not the boss of us! You aren't even a real US citizen, despite the clear and well documented public record of your birth! You are a nazi socialist commie fascist (secret muslim) kenyan tribesman who is out to destroy this country!"
Yep. You are right Robb, the rhetoric is exactly the same from both sides.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 11:55:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
That's fine but my larger point is that both sides engage in insults. I do not deny the right is just as guilty as the left. I only posted the Obama insults because I was asked to.
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(emphasis mine)
We're getting off into the weeds here, but you made the first claim:
| Obama was to be the transparent president that was going to unify the country. What the hell happened? No transparency, no working with the republicans at all for the last two years and he constantly insulted republicans. |
(emphasis mine)
Kil and Dave very clearly showed that it was the Repubs that refused to work with Obama.
When I asked for examples of the "constant insults", you provided 32 examples, out of which Dave considers 6 of them to be "true" insults"; and I consider 2 of them to be insults, and that is being very charitable.
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"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Baxter
Skeptic Friend
USA
131 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 13:22:17 [Permalink]
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| ...it was the Repubs that refused to work with Obama. |
Damn those cock-blockers. |
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." ~from Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"We can be as honest as we are ignorant. If we are, when asked what is beyond the horizon of the known, we must say that we do not know." ~Robert G. Ingersoll
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 13:41:56 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
When I asked for examples of the "constant insults", you provided 32 examples... |
22.| ...out of which Dave considers 6 of them to be "true" insults"... |
I said the six were all "arguably" insults. (The truth thing is independent of that: one can say true things that are insults, after all.)| ...and I consider 2 of them to be insults, and that is being very charitable. |
I was being very, very charitable, which is why my classifications of insult/not-insult are arguable.
...Oh, holy crap. I was going to make more of an example of this one:| Hillary is not the first politician in Washington to declare 'Mission Accomplished' a little too soon |
since it obviously seems more insulting to Hillary Clinton than to George Bush, but I just found out via Google that Obama said it during the campaign, and yes, he really was using it to ridicule her campaign's idea that she had locked up the nomination. An insult to Republicans? Not unless Robb wants to claim Hillary for the GOP. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 20:40:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dave W.
Robb, if you're going to consider criticisms to be insults, then you're never going to get that civil discussion you want.
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Saying someone is not doing their job is fine if you have examples, but saying get in the back of the car and shut up is insulting.
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Yeah, that totally fucking compares to calling the prez a nazi socialist kenyan muslim with a fake birth certificate who is the greatest threat to the US (bigger threat than all terrorists and foreign enemies combined).
"I won the election, I'm the boss now, so you guys don't get to drive the car. get in the back seat and stop demanding the keys."
or
"You are not the boss of us! You aren't even a real US citizen, despite the clear and well documented public record of your birth! You are a nazi socialist commie fascist (secret muslim) kenyan tribesman who is out to destroy this country!"
Yep. You are right Robb, the rhetoric is exactly the same from both sides.
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These are not quotes from all democrates but from President Obama. Now I could go and find all the just as nasty quotes from the liberals about President Bush. But what is the point. Honestly, grown people do not act like this except in politics and when posting at SFN |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 20:43:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Not unless Robb wants to claim Hillary for the GOP.
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Well, in hindsight, I wish she won the presidency. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 20:56:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Robb:
Then let the discussion start here. The reason I don't think President Obama worked with the republicans is that none of their propositions were even considered. The Democrats wanted the republicans to vote for it without compromising on anything substantial. |
I think it’s time to bring some historical perspective to the “Obamacare” debate. Here is the Republican Health Care plan from 1993. You know. Back when the Republicans were socialists…
Summary Of A 1993 Republican Health Reform Plan
It’s very similar to “ObamaCare”. For example there is this provision:
| Subtitle F: Universal Coverage - Requires each citizen or lawful permanent resident to be covered under a qualified health plan or equivalent health care program by January 1, 2005. Provides an exception for any individual who is opposed for religious reasons to health plan coverage, including those who rely on healing using spiritual means through prayer alone. |
That’s now being called unconstitutional by some of the sponsors of the same bill that they once supported, and socialist to boot. I guess the definition of socialism has changed over the past 17 years. Some of the socialists who sponsored the bill are guys like Bob Dole, Orrin Hatch, Arlen Specter, Ted Stevens, Richard Lugar, and so on…
While there have been complaints from the Right that the Democrats have become more liberal, socialist even, perhaps they just look that way from the fairly new far right perspective of the Republican party. What was once conservative politics and policy is now seen as radical left politics by many of the same people who supported pretty much the same healthcare bill that they rejected this time because “It’s a government takeover of healthcare.”
Robb, tell me. If the Democrats, and Obama were not compromising with the Republicans, or trying to anyhow, what happened to the public option that the majority of Americans favored? As far as I can tell, the thrust of the Republican plan is tort reform and allowing people to purchase insurance across state lines. Why have they turned their backs on their own ideas? You know. What they now call Obamacare? What do you suppose their motive is?
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This is exactly my point. There were two democrats that supported the bill in 1993. Why are they supporting it now? Its the same crap. Vote for my party no matter what and screw the country. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 23:37:05 [Permalink]
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Robb:
This is exactly my point. There were two democrats that supported the bill in 1993. Why are they supporting it now? Its the same crap. Vote for my party no matter what and screw the country. |
The reason there were only two democrats who co-sponsored the bill is because most of the Democrats at that time wanted a single payer system. Obama, and congress, being more pragmatic this time went with what was essentially a Republican healthcare plan, thinking that they could get Republicans to sign on to it. They got zero. Zero for a plan that the Republicans basically formulated and even successfully amended. And they are still calling the plan Obamacare and socialist and un-American and so on. Their plan!
You just can't keep blaming the Democrats for a strategy that Mitch McConnell has even admitted to. All things are not equal. I know you want them to be. But they're not... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 11/13/2010 : 12:25:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
That's fine but my larger point is that both sides engage in insults. I do not deny the right is just as guilty as the left. |
So it's just black or white to you? Whoever is completely without sin cast the first stone...?
You see no difference between someone stealing a penny from you, or robbing you blind?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
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"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Election day
