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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
 Posted - 11/05/2010 : 10:38:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
And this from CNN:
Debunking the myth: The cost of Obama's trip to Asia
Just about every news source is calling the story bogus. But people like Michele Bachmann, Rush, and the Fox propaganda machine are still pushing it because they don’t really care if the story is baloney.
"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."- Mark Twain
Edited to add: I don't have to time to pursue this, but get a load of what Glen Beck is saying about the trip...
http://www.politicususa.com/en/beck-obama-india
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And Rachel Maddow had this to say and more. With the bottom line being that you cannot debunk a conservative truth with non-conservative sources.
One person in particular has on more than one occassion denied my arguments, elsewhere, by stating only that my source was liberal and he didn't need to read it. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 11:32:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
One person in particular has on more than one occassion denied my arguments, elsewhere, by stating only that my source was liberal and he didn't need to read it. |
If you'd just compromised with for him, and used his sources, you'd have found out he was right.  |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 12:24:10 [Permalink]
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| Why the hell is Mitch "needs to grow a chin" McConnell acting like he is Majority leader? Mitch, you're in the Senate, and in this reality (not your Fox "News" made-up math) 2+2=4; and you are still in the minority. I hate these fucksticks. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/05/2010 : 19:00:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Why the hell is Mitch "needs to grow a chin" McConnell acting like he is Majority leader? Mitch, you're in the Senate, and in this reality (not your Fox "News" made-up math) 2+2=4; and you are still in the minority. I hate these fucksticks.
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I believe what McConnell is saying is that he will continue to block any legislation that might make the Dems look like they are making progress. What he's saying is no matter who has the House, it's business as usual in the Senate.
In other words, if there is a compromise in the House on some bill, and there might be, as leader of the Senate, he will still filibuster. He will accept no compromise. The goal is to get Obama out of office. That's the plan. And he has shown that he is willing to blackmail the Country to do it. So the House is free to do all the compromising they want. He'll kill it in the Senate (if he can) until he gets himself a Republican president.
I have been watching politics my whole life, and I have never seen a bigger bunch of bastards than the Republican leadership that is now in Washington. And that's saying something.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/06/2010 : 23:46:30 [Permalink]
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And the dems have never been more incompetent/spineless. At least since I have been paying attention to politics.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 16:47:27 [Permalink]
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Politics have always been nasty.
My problem with the current lot is a fairly new thing, I think. One party denies reality (global warming, evolution, wants to grant a fertilized egg the same rights as I have, thinks torture is ok, and so on), while the other party (who is at least sometimes close to reality) can't even compete against them in terms of public discourse.
It's sickening.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2010 : 19:29:44 [Permalink]
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Jello Biafra says Jerry Brown's not so bad
“California Über Alles” wasn’t a campaign anthem. Brown is portrayed as a “Zen fascist” who wants to be “Fuhrer.” The title evokes the first line of "Das Deutschlandliedt," the German hymn that was appropriated by Hitler. There also is is a reference to a death camp with “organic poison gas.”
As San Francisco Chronicle columnist Herb Caen once wrote, “Just when you think tastelessness has reached its nadir, along comes a punk rock group called the Dead Kennedys."
Today Biafra is a solo artist, and he says he may have been wrong about Brown back in the day. “I realized I was off base with Brown when the Reaganoids stormed in in 1980,” he tells the online A.V. Club in an interview. He added a caveat:
"It will be interesting to see what happens because Brown was a budget hawk the first time around—when there was way more money in the budget to slash from essential services. Even Brown doesn't seem to want to stand up to the rich people and the land owners who don't think they should have to pay taxes for the public good."
Of Brown as governor, Biafra also says, “I guess that would be better than selling the whole state off on eBay.” (For the politically inactive, that's a dig at GOP front-runner Meg Whitman, eBay's former chief.) |
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 20:28:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Have you got those quotes with sources, when Obama "constantly insulted republicans"? |
But I don't want the folks who created the mess -- I don't want the folks who created the mess do a lot of talking. I want them just to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don't mind cleaning up after them, but don't do a lot of talking.
We can't go back! We can't go back! We can't give the keys to the car to the people that wrecked it the last time
"There are some people who argue that we ought to abandon our efforts, and some people who made the political calculation that it's better to just say no to everything than lend a hand,"
It's a little odd getting lectures on sobriety from folks who spent like drunken sailors for the last decade,"… "they are peddling that same snake oil that they've been peddling for years."
Does anybody think that the teabag, anti-government people are going to support them if they bring down health care? All it will do is confuse and dispirit” Democratic voters “and it will encourage the extremists
helped create the tea-baggers and empowered that whole wing of the Republican Party where it now controls the agenda for the Republicans
There were no new policies from Mr. Boehner. There were no new ideas. There was just the same philosophy that we had already tried during the decade that they were in power -- the same philosophy that led to this mess in the first place: Cut more taxes for millionaires and cut more rules for corporations.”
There are members of their base who think if somebody even smiles at me, they think, 'You're a traitor
We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back."
"I do love the Waldorf-Astoria, though. You know, I hear that from the doorstep you can see all the way to the Russian tea room."
Hillary is not the first politician in Washington to declare 'Mission Accomplished' a little too soon."
We finally got the car up. ... Then they got the nerve to ask for the keys back!" the President said. "They don't know how to drive."
when you want to go forward in a car you put it in D not R
If I said the sky was blue, they'd say no. If I said fish live in the sea, they'd say no.
To steal a line from our old friend, Ted Kennedy: what is it about working men and women that they find so offensive?
But there are some folks in Washington who see things differently. When it comes to just about everything we’ve done to strengthen the middle class and rebuild our economy, almost every Republican in Congress said no. Even where we usually agree, they say no. They think it’s better to score political points before an election than actually solve problems. So they said no to help for small businesses. No to middle-class tax cuts. No to unemployment insurance. No to clean energy jobs. No to making college affordable. No to reforming Wall Street. Even as we speak, these guys are saying no to cutting more taxes for small business owners. I mean, come on! Remember when our campaign slogan was “Yes We Can?” These guys are running on “No, We Can’t,” and proud of it. Really inspiring, huh?
Bottom line is, these guys refuse to give up on the economic philosophy they peddled for most of the last decade. You know that philosophy: you cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires; you cut rules for special interests; you cut working folks like you loose to fend for yourselves. They called it the ownership society. What it really boiled down to was: if you couldn’t find a job, or afford college, or got dropped by your insurance company – you’re on your own.
So basically, they’re betting that between now and November, you’ll come down with a case of amnesia. They think you’ll forget what their agenda did to this country. They think you’ll just believe that they’ve changed. These are the folks whose policies helped devastate our middle class and drive our economy into a ditch. And now they’re asking you for the keys back.
Do you want to give them the keys back? Me neither. And do you know why? Because they don’t know how to drive! At a time when we’re just getting out of the ditch, they’d pop it in reverse, let the special interests ride shotgun, and hit the gas, careening right back into that ditch.
"What I'm seeing out of the Republican leadership over the last several years has been a set of policies that are just irresponsible. And we saw in their 'Pledge to America' a similar set of irresponsible policies,"
"Unfortunately John McCain couldn’t make it. Recently he claimed that he never identified himself as a maverick. And we all know what happens in Arizona when you don’t have ID. 'Adios Amigos.'"
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 20:49:11 [Permalink]
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Robb, if you're going to consider criticisms to be insults, then you're never going to get that civil discussion you want.
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- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2010 : 21:06:10 [Permalink]
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Let's examine them in detail:| But I don't want the folks who created the mess -- I don't want the folks who created the mess do a lot of talking. I want them just to get out of the way so we can clean up the mess. I don't mind cleaning up after them, but don't do a lot of talking. |
No insults there. Score 1-0.| We can't go back! We can't go back! We can't give the keys to the car to the people that wrecked it the last time |
No insults. 2-0.| "There are some people who argue that we ought to abandon our efforts, and some people who made the political calculation that it's better to just say no to everything than lend a hand," |
No insults. 3-0.| It's a little odd getting lectures on sobriety from folks who spent like drunken sailors for the last decade,"… "they are peddling that same snake oil that they've been peddling for years." |
These metaphors aren't nice. 3-1.| Does anybody think that the teabag, anti-government people are going to support them if they bring down health care? All it will do is confuse and dispirit” Democratic voters “and it will encourage the extremists |
"Teabaggers" owned that label. 4-1.| helped create the tea-baggers and empowered that whole wing of the Republican Party where it now controls the agenda for the Republicans |
Ditto. 5-1.| There were no new policies from Mr. Boehner. There were no new ideas. There was just the same philosophy that we had already tried during the decade that they were in power -- the same philosophy that led to this mess in the first place: Cut more taxes for millionaires and cut more rules for corporations.” |
No insults. 6-1.| There are members of their base who think if somebody even smiles at me, they think, 'You're a traitor |
No insults. 7-1.| We don't mind the Republicans joining us. They can come for the ride, but they gotta sit in back." |
Seriously? 8-1.| "I do love the Waldorf-Astoria, though. You know, I hear that from the doorstep you can see all the way to the Russian tea room." |
Palin brought this on herself, but still. 9-2.| Hillary is not the first politician in Washington to declare 'Mission Accomplished' a little too soon." |
Bush brought it on himself, but still. 9-3.| We finally got the car up. ... Then they got the nerve to ask for the keys back!" the President said. "They don't know how to drive." |
Still just an automotive metaphor. 10-3.| when you want to go forward in a car you put it in D not R |
Even though it's true, 10-4.| If I said the sky was blue, they'd say no. If I said fish live in the sea, they'd say no. |
No insults. 11-4.| To steal a line from our old friend, Ted Kennedy: what is it about working men and women that they find so offensive? |
No insults. 12-4.| But there are some folks in Washington who see things differently. When it comes to just about everything we’ve done to strengthen the middle class and rebuild our economy, almost every Republican in Congress said no. Even where we usually agree, they say no. They think it’s better to score political points before an election than actually solve problems. So they said no to help for small businesses. No to middle-class tax cuts. No to unemployment insurance. No to clean energy jobs. No to making college affordable. No to reforming Wall Street. Even as we speak, these guys are saying no to cutting more taxes for small business owners. I mean, come on! Remember when our campaign slogan was “Yes We Can?” These guys are running on “No, We Can’t,” and proud of it. Really inspiring, huh? |
No insults. 13-4.| Bottom line is, these guys refuse to give up on the economic philosophy they peddled for most of the last decade. You know that philosophy: you cut taxes for millionaires and billionaires; you cut rules for special interests; you cut working folks like you loose to fend for yourselves. They called it the ownership society. What it really boiled down to was: if you couldn’t find a job, or afford college, or got dropped by your insurance company – you’re on your own. |
No insults. 14-4.| So basically, they’re betting that between now and November, you’ll come down with a case of amnesia. They think you’ll forget what their agenda did to this country. They think you’ll just believe that they’ve changed. These are the folks whose policies helped devastate our middle class and drive our economy into a ditch. And now they’re asking you for the keys back. |
No insults. 15-4.| Do you want to give them the keys back? Me neither. And do you know why? Because they don’t know how to drive! At a time when we’re just getting out of the ditch, they’d pop it in reverse, let the special interests ride shotgun, and hit the gas, careening right back into that ditch. |
This might take the metaphor too far, so I'll give it to you. 15-5.| "What I'm seeing out of the Republican leadership over the last several years has been a set of policies that are just irresponsible. And we saw in their 'Pledge to America' a similar set of irresponsible policies," |
No insults. 16-5.| "Unfortunately John McCain couldn’t make it. Recently he claimed that he never identified himself as a maverick. And we all know what happens in Arizona when you don’t have ID. 'Adios Amigos.'" |
McCain and Arizona brought it upon themselves, but still... 16-6.
So you've got 16 non-insulting quotes and six arguably insulting quotes, and call this "constantly" insulting. You need to grow a thicker skin, Robb. Saying someone is wrong or irresponsible in politics is not an insult, even when using a metaphor. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 06:46:09 [Permalink]
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Well done, Dave. But I still think you are being wayyyy too liberal (no pun intended) with what qualifies as an insult.
I would only two of your six to be borderline "insults":
| when you want to go forward in a car you put it in D not R |
As an insult, this is very, very VERY weak. But I'm being charitable this morning.
| "Unfortunately John McCain couldn’t make it. Recently he claimed that he never identified himself as a maverick. And we all know what happens in Arizona when you don’t have ID. 'Adios Amigos.'" |
Also pretty weak insult-wise, but I'll let it pass.
If I have time, I'll try to search for insults of Obama from the right. Then we can compare the two and see who has been more extreme. That ought to be illustrative. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 08:26:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Fripp
Well done, Dave. But I still think you are being wayyyy too liberal (no pun intended) with what qualifies as an insult.
I would only two of your six to be borderline "insults":
| when you want to go forward in a car you put it in D not R |
As an insult, this is very, very VERY weak. But I'm being charitable this morning.
| "Unfortunately John McCain couldn’t make it. Recently he claimed that he never identified himself as a maverick. And we all know what happens in Arizona when you don’t have ID. 'Adios Amigos.'" |
Also pretty weak insult-wise, but I'll let it pass.
If I have time, I'll try to search for insults of Obama from the right. Then we can compare the two and see who has been more extreme. That ought to be illustrative.
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That's fine but my larger point is that both sides engage in insults. I do not deny the right is just as guilty as the left. I only posted the Obama insults because I was asked to. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 11/12/2010 : 08:28:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Robb, if you're going to consider criticisms to be insults, then you're never going to get that civil discussion you want.
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Saying someone is not doing their job is fine if you have examples, but saying get in the back of the car and shut up is insulting. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Election day
