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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
 Posted - 01/10/2011 : 10:19:07 [Permalink]
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Which he has absolutely no proof of. It is morally wrong to advance political agenda's due to these tragedies.
The media says they know why this man shot these people but the same media said not to jump to conclusions as to the motive of the ft hood shootings. Why? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 10:33:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Which he has absolutely no proof of. It is morally wrong to advance political agenda's due to these tragedies.
The media says they know why this man shot these people but the same media said not to jump to conclusions as to the motive of the ft hood shootings. Why?
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You know Robb, I tend to agree with you. But I think a call for toning down the rhetoric coming from people like Palin, Rush and Beck is not such a bad thing to ask for. Placing politicians that you don't like in the crosshairs of what looks like a gun sight is irresponsible. And before you say "well the left does it too" I can't think of a single left wing pundit or anyone in the media known to be on the left using violence is a metaphor for political action. If you can come up with one, let me know... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 11:19:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Robb
Which he has absolutely no proof of. It is morally wrong to advance political agenda's due to these tragedies.
The media says they know why this man shot these people but the same media said not to jump to conclusions as to the motive of the ft hood shootings. Why?
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You know Robb, I tend to agree with you. But I think a call for toning down the rhetoric coming from people like Palin, Rush and Beck is not such a bad thing to ask for. Placing politicians that you don't like in the crosshairs of what looks like a gun sight is irresponsible. And before you say "well the left does it too" I can't think of a single left wing pundit or anyone in the media known to be on the left using violence is a metaphor for political action. If you can come up with one, let me know...
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Who needs metaphores?
| "If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - President Obama |
| "I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn't be dying needlessly tomorrow....I'm just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That's a fact." -- Bill Mahr |
"O&A - 'Condoleezza Rice'"
Charlie - "I'd love to f--- that b*tch dude" (laughter)
Charlie - "She's the F---in man"
O&A - "yeah"
Charlie - "I'd F...that b*tch...."
O&A - "I just imagine the horror in Condoleezza Rice's face...."
- "(laughter) ..... as she realizes what's going on"
- "...as you were just holding her down and F'n her."
Charlie - "punch her all the F'n face, shut the F--- up b*tch"
O&A - "that's exactly what I meant" (laughter in background)
Charlie - "you know F--- it .... and George Bush wife? I'd F--- that b*tch to death" -- "Shock Jocks" Opie & Anthony talk rape & violence with their guest "Homeless Charlie." |
| "Drudge? Aw, Drudge, somebody ought to wrap a strong Republican entrail around his neck and hoist him up about six feet in the air and watch him bounce." -- Mike Malloy |
| (Rush Limbaugh)" just wants the country to fail. To me that's treason. He's not saying anything different than what Osama Bin Laden is saying. You might want to look into this, sir, because I think Rush Limbaugh was the 20th hijacker but he was just so strung out on Oxycontin he missed his flight. ... Rush Limbaugh, I hope the country fails, I hope his kidneys fail, how about that?" -- Wanda Sykes |
| "Real freedom will come when [U.S.] soldiers in Iraq turn their guns on their superiors." -- Warren County Community College adjunct English professor, John Daly |
I do agree that maybe our politicians and pundits do need to be more careful of what they say on both sides. Although nobody really believes that Sarah Palin is wanting anybody to kill the politicians in the crosshairs, I do agree she should have thought better of it.
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Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 15:58:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Although nobody really believes that Sarah Palin is wanting anybody to kill the politicians in the crosshairs... |
Except perhaps for people on the edge of sanity already.
And of course, it's hardly limited to Palin. There are plenty of Tea Partiers spewing violent sound-bites along the lines of "if voting to change our government doesn't work, bullets will," and wrapping themselves in faux patriotism based on the American Revolutionary War.
And while Obama's campaign comment was stupid (and now Fox News' website is bringing it back up as if it were said last Thursday), how many more like it can you find from Democratic congresspeople or candidates for high office? That is what the difference is between the left and right today: the conservatives don't limit the violent rhetoric to shock-jocks and comedians, their elected representatives proudly proclaim it from the floor of the House. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 16:21:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Although nobody really believes that Sarah Palin is wanting anybody to kill the politicians in the crosshairs... |
Oh, haven't you heard? Palin's reps have said those weren't crosshairs at all. Those marks on the map were surveyor symbols.
Foment hate and violence, and then when called on it lie your ass off. That's the party of integrity and personal responsibility for you, Robb!
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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the_ignored
SFN Addict
2562 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 17:36:19 [Permalink]
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Well, you know that Rush Limbaugh had to have his take on it.
Great big long rant.
Fun read? I'll leave that up to you.
Me, I look at the view expressed here.
| If you're worried that violent video games may make kids prone to bad behavior; if you think that misogynic and homophobic rap lyrics are dangerous to society; if you believe that a nipple in a Superbowl halftime show is a threat to our moral fabric - then surely you should also fear that the way public and media figures have framed political participation with shooting gallery imagery is just as potentially lethal. |
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>From: enuffenuff@fastmail.fm
(excerpt follows):
> I'm looking to teach these two bastards a lesson they'll never forget.
> Personal visit by mates of mine. No violence, just a wee little chat.
>
> **** has also committed more crimes than you can count with his
> incitement of hatred against a religion. That law came in about 2007
> much to ****'s ignorance. That is fact and his writing will become well
> know as well as him becoming a publicly known icon of hatred.
>
> Good luck with that fuckwit. And Reynold, fucking run, and don't stop.
> Disappear would be best as it was you who dared to attack me on my
> illness knowing nothing of the cause. You disgust me and you are top of
> the list boy. Again, no violence. Just regular reminders of who's there
> and visits to see you are behaving. Nothing scary in reality. But I'd
> still disappear if I was you.
What brought that on? this. Original posting here.
Another example of this guy's lunacy here. |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 22:16:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
And while Obama's campaign comment was stupid (and now Fox News' website is bringing it back up as if it were said last Thursday), how many more like it can you find from Democratic congresspeople or candidates for high office? |
Isn't this moving the goalposts? |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Robb
SFN Regular
USA
1223 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 22:20:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Foment hate and violence, and then when called on it lie your ass off. That's the party of integrity and personal responsibility for you, Robb! |
Oh please. You think that any politician has integrity?
Are you blaming this Az shooting on conservative comments? If you do then don't talk to me about integrity. |
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master. - George Washington |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 22:51:37 [Permalink]
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This guy seems to be a nut off his meds.
Robb: Your examples of liberals calling for violence are weak. The Anthony/Opie bit? Seriously? They are fucking retarded, unfunny, dipshit wannabe comedians who make their money by saying offensive and outrageous shit. The rest... pale in comparison to the shit said by the rightwing nuts and you know it.
The wingnuts are guilty of inciting violence, the liberals are not. Especially when you consider the volume of hate from the rightwing. How many times did you hear Obama called a Muslim (Muslims=911!) in 2008? How many times did you hear fucktard Bill Orly say "Tiller the baby killer!" before Tiller was assassinated? Have you EVER heard a liberal call for the poisoning of the speaker of the house? Have you ever heard a liberal threaten "2nd amendment remedies" if they lost an election?
Seriously man. The tea/gop people are way out of line, so much so that they are violating laws about inciting violence, imo.
That said, I am all for a total ban on all violent metaphors (and outright calls for violence) in political speech. We should codify it in law even, and the sentencing for first offense should be severe.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 23:02:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by Dave W.
And while Obama's campaign comment was stupid (and now Fox News' website is bringing it back up as if it were said last Thursday), how many more like it can you find from Democratic congresspeople or candidates for high office? |
Isn't this moving the goalposts? |
Well, Kil maybe couldn't think of any examples, but zero violent rhetoric from the left ever is an unreasonable expectation, what with actual lefty violence back in the heavy days. So what really should be examined is relative levels of such speech, and it's definitely the conservatives' turn to be leading - by a lot - these days. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 23:48:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
. . .
That said, I am all for a total ban on all violent metaphors (and outright calls for violence) in political speech. We should codify it in law even, and the sentencing for first offense should be severe. |
Such well-meaning laws, IMO, would be like the Alien and Sedition Acts, which damned near killed our democracy aborning. If such were enacted, I might be forced to use my 1st Amendment remedies. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 01/10/2011 : 23:56:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Foment hate and violence, and then when called on it lie your ass off. That's the party of integrity and personal responsibility for you, Robb! |
Oh please. You think that any politician has integrity? |
I think the Tea Baggers and conservatives in this country have demonstrated least amount of integrity, yes. At least the Dems try to do good things, like pass health care. What do the vile repugs do beside hate things? Seriously, can you name one plank of conservative politics that has helped this country in any way during our lifetimes? I can't think of single thing.
Are you blaming this Az shooting on conservative comments? If you do then don't talk to me about integrity.
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Actually, no, I have yet to see a direct link. But this incident has sparked a debate over the incendiary rhetoric coming from conservative corners, and I see that as a good thing. So let me ask you something, Robb. Even if we can all admit that this shooting had nothing to do with Sarah Palin marking the names of her political enemies with crosshairs, can you still condemn her for it? If not, then don't talk to me about integrity.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 01:10:12 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Originally posted by Dude
. . .
That said, I am all for a total ban on all violent metaphors (and outright calls for violence) in political speech. We should codify it in law even, and the sentencing for first offense should be severe. |
Such well-meaning laws, IMO, would be like the Alien and Sedition Acts, which damned near killed our democracy aborning. If such were enacted, I might be forced to use my 1st Amendment remedies.
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I disagree. Requiring politicians to not use violent metaphors, incite violence, and not incite people to violence is nothing like the Alien and Sediti9on acts.
Not all speech is protected. That shit should be illegal with severe consequences.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 01:24:57 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
Originally posted by Robb
Originally posted by H. Humbert
Foment hate and violence, and then when called on it lie your ass off. That's the party of integrity and personal responsibility for you, Robb! |
Oh please. You think that any politician has integrity? |
I think the Tea Baggers and conservatives in this country have demonstrated least amount of integrity, yes. At least the Dems try to do good things, like pass health care. What do the vile repugs do beside hate things? Seriously, can you name one plank of conservative politics that has helped this country in any way during our lifetimes? I can't think of single thing.
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The EPA, OSHA, clean air act, Détente with the USSR, the first Anti-Ballistic Missle Treaty, Title IX, Equal Employment Opportunity Act?
Of course, Nixon (all those were done while he was prez) was the last liberal president.... at least that is how they describe him today. Those things were once conservative ideas. Now you are a liberal pinko commie socialist if you think those are good ideas.
Nixon also had a plan for nationalized healthcare, but he was convinced to change it into the insurance based healthcare we are fucked stuck with today.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 01/11/2011 : 08:25:57 [Permalink]
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I lay this all at the feet of Ted Turner and his damned cable news network. Back in the day we only had the nightly news and whatever paper happened to show up at our doorstep and all the world was calm and peaceful. Then Turner shows up with his news network and the world has went straight to hell in a hand basket ever since. The AM airwaves not so much. Sure the right has Rush to sooth them for 3 hours a day but then you have Air America on the converse and so each cancels out the other.
Plus everyone knows this man's mental state and atheistic proclamations are a direct result of man made global climate change or (A.G.C.C.). Look what it is doing to the poor polar bears and the South Asian magpie for cryingoutloud.... |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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I hope these aren't the first shots in a civil war
