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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 02/23/2011 : 18:05:36
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Hi folks, I just found this website and felt the urge to join. I consider myself quite skeptical on a great deal of issues, ranging from religion to politics and I agree with a large number of posts I have seen here so far.
When it comes to the issue of whether E.T.s are 'visiting' Earth, however, I don't have the luxury of speculating or guessing. I have been forced to deal with the reality of flying saucers and alien beings since the mid-1960's.
I cannot fault anyone who has not gone through the events I have gone through for coming to a different conclusion regarding the presence of E.T.s. Many a reasonable argument can be made to support the opinion aliens are not here, I suppose, especially if one imposes current human scientific understanding as a hard limit for alien knowledge. Though that's a little like asking a buggy-whip manufacturer how hard you have to whip a horse before he can take you to the moon.
I am willing to share what I know about the species of aliens I have encountered; their abilities, appearance, unifoms/clothing, their ships, their statements, their actions, their motivations, and their vehicles with anyone interested.
I'm not here to change anyone's mind, I'm not here to 'prove' it to you, or force anyone to agree with me, no one can change your mind for you. I offer to share what I know out about extraterrestrials out of a deep sense of responsibilty, hopefully my experiences will be of interest to an eager intellect.
Thank you for your time, I hope a civil conversation will ensue.
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 19:48:24 [Permalink]
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Well, before getting into the specifics of your claims, I'd personally love to see the evidence for them. I think relating the abilities, appearance, uniforms/clothing, ships, statements, actions, motivations, and vehicles of these aliens would be a pointless exercise unless we have some way to confirm your story. This is a skeptic's website, after all. Anyone can make up a story, even a highly detailed one.
Which isn't to say I won't keep an open mind. We're a pretty fair bunch and I don't think anyone will treat you uncivilly, but do expect your claims to get a thorough going over.
Welcome to the SFN.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 19:57:41 [Permalink]
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I don't believe that you'll find any here who would suggest that current human understanding of science is a hard limit to knowledge, alien or other.
Welcome to SFN |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 20:20:24 [Permalink]
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| Personally, I'm not terribly interested in ET fashions, actions, politics, etc., unless those things have some bearing on detecting and copying their modes of transport, since this particular planet has an expiration date. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Chippewa
SFN Regular
USA
1496 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2011 : 21:17:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
...I am willing to share what I know about the species of aliens I have encountered; their abilities, appearance, unifoms/clothing, their ships, their statements, their actions, their motivations, and their vehicles with anyone interested... |
Endowing extraterrestrial life forms with "uniforms" and "clothing", "spaceships", and even "motivations" makes them just like us and rules out intelligence that is not like us. Therefore you are applying our human history and our human psychology to unknown life forms.
Any speculation about alien intelligence that makes hypothetical aliens act "like us" quickly deteriorates into pulp SciFi beings that are in fact, human with different makeup, with different military uniforms and different versions of our machines. Its OK for Star Trek episodes but very likely not applicable to Nature. Given the diversity and history of all life as it has evolved on Earth, extraterrestrial aliens, if they exist, are very likely not like us at all.
Also, when dealing with speculations about hypothetical alien civilizations people tend to overlook something. We don't know what a civilization is, especially when applied to an extraterrestrial life form. They are after all, aliens - no matter if they exist and are close enough to make it here.
Also, we don't know what intelligence is when applied to unknown life forms that have evolved within a different (or even similar) environment. There is a lot we do know however and the belittlement of "human scientific understanding" is a unfortunate characteristic of an appeal to authority, (namely unseen aliens who are always technologically superior in human terms only.)
Then there are the staggering interstellar distances and the types of physics possible or not possible to travel them. But that's another story.
Given the types of chemistry detected here as well as in deep space I think its likely that life of some kind could develop on other worlds. We do not yet know if its rare or plentiful in the galaxy but we may develop better theories as more terrestrial planets are discovered and if Mars or Europa later prove to have independent microbes. But that's also another story.
I think that we may come to understand if extraterrestrial life is clearly probable, not by them visiting us, but by a better understanding of the probability and frequency of the mechanism leading to the very origins of living things on Earth.*
*(Even if Zorgon's Space Fleet shows up tomorrow, we still need to know this.)
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 00:34:07 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
I certainly hope your powers of persuasion are commensurate with the level of cognition that is implicit in your nom de plume! SFN is not a platform for the faint of heart. The demand here for the application of an elusive quality called "Critical Thinking" and the mandate for utilization of The Scientific Method and Logic (a rather broad descriptive, I grant), is extraordinarily pervasive throughout the intellectual climate of these forums.
A quick reading of the current thread, "Moon-walker claims alien contact cover-up " will give you a slight taste of the degree of open-mindedness you will find here.
Choose your syllogistic structures carefully, and for god's (figure of speech) sake do not venture forth from your comfort zone of self appreciation without an abnormal degree of evidential armour; because the barbs and arrows of the unfortunately outrageously tightly organized Show Us The Evidence antiphilistines will indeed rain upon your journey.
I will await your evidence for ET with mouth-watering anticipation! |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 02/24/2011 00:40:35 |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 00:40:17 [Permalink]
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Thanks for a much warmer welcome than I expected! Even to those not really interested in hearing what I have to say, thanks.
Let me say hello to Chippewa, if you are a member or descendant of the Chippewa, that's very cool. Nice to meet you either way.
| Endowing extraterrestrial life forms with "uniforms" and "clothing", "spaceships", and even "motivations" makes them just like us and rules out intelligence that is not like us. Therefore you are applying our human history and our human psychology to unknown life forms. |
I hear what you are saying. And it brings up a very important issue: as long as aliens remain relatively vague and undefined in the Zeitgeist, it's an area of endless possibilities. The minute certain characteristics are understood about a particular alien race, then what is also revealed is what type of aliens they are NOT. What if they are not kind? What if they are not respectful? What if they are not merciful? Or is it bigger than that - What if they are completely removed from understanding or displaying any of these admittedly human characteristics? These traits that influence the way we interact with other life forms here on Earth, both simliar and dissimilar. Of course, here on Earth, every time we encounter another life form, be it plant or animal, we usually try eating the other life form. Something to consider.
I did not endow the aliens with uniforms, clothing or motivations, I promise. Maybe I should be more descriptive. and I didn't use the word "spaceships", I said vehicles. But you're right in the sense that I bring a strictly human frame of reference to the situation and my interpretation of events, is it possible to do otherwise? Further, these are human words I'm using, English specifically, being my primary method of communication. No matter what language we speak, we are limited and defined by our humanity. But these tools of human communication and reference are solid enough to get us to the moon, so let's not dismiss their ability to effectively discuss an alien race. We can try.
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 00:55:38 [Permalink]
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Thank you, nice to meet you.
A quick reading of the current thread, "Moon-walker claims alien contact cover-up " will give you a slight taste of the degree of open-mindedness you will find here.
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I read some of that thread and I must say that some of the posts did not reflect well on the posters, they seemed just mean-spirited and unjustifiably smug. But the issue of aliens is a very emotionally charged issue, and the belief structures we bring to the topic weigh heavy. We do the best we can, usually, but some of these posts show the lower half of discourse. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 00:58:50 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
Please begin! |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 01:07:19 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
| I read some of that thread and I must say that some of the posts did not reflect well on the posters, they seemed just mean-spirited and unjustifiably smug. |
Well, that just goes with the territory here, one cannot be overly concerned with it!
However, this poster is uncomfortably eager to hear some of the evidence as to the existence of ET to which you directly or indirectly allude in your original post. I am sure there are many here that share that desire. So, by all means, the floor is yours! |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 01:09:23 [Permalink]
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bngbuck, thanks.
I'm not sure where to begin, the first encounter I remember clearly took place in the summer of 1968, my family and I experienced many encounters/abductions for decades, including a nearly-botched abduction-return in 1997 in broad daylight. My mother was abducted before I was born, and my younger brothers abducted many times as well.
I'm no writer, I'm sure that's become evident, perhaps if anyone had any specific questions about my experiences? It might be better to stick to what areas interest the people here. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 01:49:21 [Permalink]
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When I say the first encounter with an alien I remember clearly was in 1968, it's because I was a boy at the time, and though I have some earlier memories, I was quite young and the incident not well-remembered.
But in the summer of 1968,I was in my room, watching a little black-and-white television. Most of the room was dark, except for the usual glow from the nearest streetlights and neighbors porch lights. When a car drove down our street, its headlights would reflect their way through my window and across a corner of my ceiling. Whatever your bedroom, you grow familiar with the usual play of whatever lights seep in at night. Often I'd see the red glow of tail-lights going the other way down the street, casting a warm red into my room, across the ceiling. That night, the room was suddenly filled with the brightest lights I'd ever seen, bright red, but shining down on the floor, not the ceiling. And I'm on the second floor, what is shining its light down into my room?I hear movement outside, then one of them is tapping at my window, its face somehow looking in my second-floor window. It beckoned me to come outside, gesturing to its ship which hovered and glowed, telling me in my mind that I had to come with them for a while but that it was okay. The ship bobbed in the air like a cork on a lake, a saucer shape, on its side, wedged improbably between our house and the next, over our neighbor's driveway, lit up like a Ferris wheel, similar in the spokes of light radiating from the center. I said no thanks, I was going to just stay here. They told me I must go with them, and the one at my window came in the house and up to my room to get me. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2011 : 04:12:19 [Permalink]
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Hi le Penseur and welcome to SFN!
I have but a couple of questions: 1) how did these creatures cover such unimaginally vast distances when the upward speed limit is that of light, and 2) why would they bother to visit our racketty little mudball in the first place? What is so attractive about us and our world that they must visit?
Ok, that's three questions -- sorry 'bout that. But I've asked them before and have yet to get a satisfactory answer. Heh, I have learned a few interesting combinations of words & phrases, however. Some folks tend to be a mite tetchy on some subjects.
Again, welcome!
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 05:52:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
I read some of that thread and I must say that some of the posts did not reflect well on the posters, they seemed just mean-spirited and unjustifiably smug. But the issue of aliens is a very emotionally charged issue, and the belief structures we bring to the topic weigh heavy. We do the best we can, usually, but some of these posts show the lower half of discourse. |
Aggressive tone-copping like the above is ironically also mean-spirited and unjustifiably smug. So much for doing the best one can. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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BigPapaSmurf
SFN Die Hard
3192 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 05:58:55 [Permalink]
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I think it's far more likely that your mother shared her drugs with you or shared her psycosis with you. Both of which are more plausable and likely than your self-important unevidenced fantasy.
If your only evidence is your own assertion, you might as well stop here and save yourself some grief. |
"...things I have neither seen nor experienced nor heard tell of from anybody else; things, what is more, that do not in fact exist and could not ever exist at all. So my readers must not believe a word I say." -Lucian on his book True History
"...They accept such things on faith alone, without any evidence. So if a fraudulent and cunning person who knows how to take advantage of a situation comes among them, he can make himself rich in a short time." -Lucian critical of early Christians c.166 AD From his book, De Morte Peregrini |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 05:59:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
When I say the first encounter with an alien I remember clearly was in 1968, it's because I was a boy at the time, and though I have some earlier memories, I was quite young and the incident not well-remembered.
But in the summer of 1968,I was in my room, watching a little black-and-white television. Most of the room was dark, except for the usual glow from the nearest streetlights and neighbors porch lights. When a car drove down our street, its headlights would reflect their way through my window and across a corner of my ceiling. Whatever your bedroom, you grow familiar with the usual play of whatever lights seep in at night. Often I'd see the red glow of tail-lights going the other way down the street, casting a warm red into my room, across the ceiling. That night, the room was suddenly filled with the brightest lights I'd ever seen, bright red, but shining down on the floor, not the ceiling. And I'm on the second floor, what is shining its light down into my room?I hear movement outside, then one of them is tapping at my window, its face somehow looking in my second-floor window. It beckoned me to come outside, gesturing to its ship which hovered and glowed, telling me in my mind that I had to come with them for a while but that it was okay. The ship bobbed in the air like a cork on a lake, a saucer shape, on its side, wedged improbably between our house and the next, over our neighbor's driveway, lit up like a Ferris wheel, similar in the spokes of light radiating from the center. I said no thanks, I was going to just stay here. They told me I must go with them, and the one at my window came in the house and up to my room to get me. |
This reads like a dream to me. I remember, quite vididly, some dreams from when I was a very young boy. I know they were dreams because they contain quite improbable occurrences, such as cartoon characters walking around in my home. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
