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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2011 : 18:25:49 [Permalink]
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Thank you bngbuck, and thank you kil, it's a pleasure to meet you!
First to answer Humbert, none of these incidents are memories recovered by hypnosis.
Second to answer Dr. Mabuse:
What was the address of your house in which this episode transpired?
How many siblings do you have (did you have at that time), and how many rooms were there in the house?
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I would like to answer as many personal questions as I can without revealing my identity, as there are people involved with very public careers. I guess I can answer this without revealing too much.
The address was 156 Spring Street, Saratoga Springs New York. You will find that the Hudson valley of New York has a long history of UFO and paranormal activity.
It was a large house, previously it was the house of a well-to-do family, with servants quarters. When we lived there, the house had been divided into three units, we occupied one unit, there were two other families in the other apartments. We had the largest unit, occupying about half the house. There was a front room, a living room, a pantry and kitchen, one and a half bathrooms, a laundry room by the servants staircase. Upstairs we had three bedrooms and the other bathroom.The pantry doubled as our toy room/ play area. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 18:41:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
First to answer Humbert, none of these incidents are memories recovered by hypnosis. |
Ok, thank you for that answer. I may have more questions later, but for now I'm content to let you continue your tale.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 19:05:12 [Permalink]
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The address was 156 Spring Street, Saratoga Springs New York. You will find that the Hudson valley of New York has a long history of UFO and paranormal activity.
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I know where that is; I lived for some years in northren VT. You are correct: there are a lot of sightings in that area. I and some friends even had one ourselvs -- don't know what it was but I do know what it wasn't. It wasn't a Vulcan making first contact or something similar.
Pretty country up that way, isn't it?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 20:02:21 [Permalink]
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le Penseur,
Just to help you understand what you will need to do to meet the burden of proof you have set yourself up for here, I will make a list of what you need to do.
Provide any one of the following:
1. A live ET, tell them to come over to my place for a drink. I have some high quality single malt waiting for a special occasion.
2. A dead ET. I will tell you where to take it for a full analysis. Starting with a general autopsy and proceeding from there as it merits it, down to the molecular level.
3. ET tech that does something no human tech can do.
4. Tell them to come abduct me (just no probing please). A ride on one of their ships might do the trick, I'll bring my HD video camera too.
If you can't do something along those lines, then you are only going to be met with ridicule. No one really gives a crap about your story, we want evidence only. Your story is just some stupid shit you made up unless you can back it up with evidence, just to be clear here.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 20:05:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
It was a large house, previously it was the house of a well-to-do family, with servants quarters.
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I'm asking because I find it curious that a young child would have a TV-set in his own room... Maybe American families in general had more such appliances than average Swedish families at that time. In -68 not all families had one TV-set, and only a few had one to spare to put in a children's room. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 20:08:05 [Permalink]
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Dear Le Penseur
What are you hoping for from this website? You are probably not going to convince anyone your story is real. I assume if you had evidence you wouldn't be wasting it on this forum. Have you presented your evidence to other people? What was their response?
By the way, my user name isn't related to ET's. However, I have dreams about aliens. Unfortunately, they were not happy dreams - usually the aliens were trying to take over or destroy everything they could. Fortunately, I don't have those dreams too often. |
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 21:05:43 [Permalink]
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To respond to Filthy -
Yes, it's a beautiful area, all of my family's experiences with aliens have taken place in the Hudson Valley. I'd be curious to hear about your sighting too, anytime you want to discuss it.
To respond to Dr. Mabuse -
My parents got me a really small black and white TV for my room, the screen was probably about 7". It was a 'portable', with giant long rabbit ears.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 21:22:20 [Permalink]
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le Penseur:
My parents got me a really small black and white TV for my room, the screen was probably about 7". It was a 'portable', with giant long rabbit ears. |
Cool! Did your neighbors or anyone else see the saucer? Also, what time was it, about? How close to bedtime? Were you sitting or lying down?
Actually, it would be helpful if you told the whole story of that particular abduction. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 02/24/2011 : 22:19:45 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
1.)You claim the upper speed limit is that of light, I assume you mean for both human and alien. |
I don't know exactly what filthy meant, but our current scientific understanding is that no information can be transmitted faster than the speed of light. Since humans or aliens moving faster than light could certainly carry information with them, that would, indeed, violate a rather foundational law of the universe which has survived many, many experimental tests.
Besides, getting something with a non-zero rest mass accelerated to the speed of light would require more energy than exists in every particle and photon that we can see. Theoretical possibilities like wormholes don't allow us to escape this conclusion, because they require vast amounts of energy, too (and nothing we know of could survive the trip intact, anyway). So unless you've got some plausible method whereby we skip the nasty acceleration and energy problems, we can rule out faster-than-light (FTL) travel for even single atoms, much less whole humans or aliens.No, they did not. For one thing, "sending light backwards" is a nonsensical phrase in the context of physics.
What the researcher was dealing with was "packets" of light, which consist a leading pulse with gazillions of individual photons followed by a longish trailing "tail" with fewer and fewer photons. Imagine a teardrop shape, if it helps. What they found was that a particular coating on a fiber-optic cable caused the shape of the packet to become "inverted" (sent "backwards") and streched out, with the trailing "tail" winding up at the receiver at slightly faster than light speed. We can't use this to send information FTL, because our opto-electronic receivers don't detect the "tail," they detect the big pulse, which still traveled at the same speed it always had. The citation you provided even says that the researcher thought that if the packets were symmetrical (with "tails" on both sides - a classic flying-saucer shape), the FTL phenomenon would vanish. I see no reason to have doubted him.
And, of course, sending packets of photons down a fiber-optic cable at FTL speeds is a far cry from sending humans or aliens through space at FTL speeds high enough to make interstellar travel practical for individuals.Even if this result holds up under the criticism it has received from other physicists (see the Wikipedia article linked to by filthy), photons traveling FTL for three whole feet is again a far cry from sending a whole human or alien across light years at similar speeds. Also, how quantum tunneling could be used to send information is something I can't figure out, so it may not be a violation at all."Group velocity" of matter waves is what the first reference was all about, too. The "pulses" themselves never exceed the speed of light, and the phenomenon can't be used to transmit information (or humans, or aliens) at FTL speeds. The article even says that this result would surprise nobody who works in that particular field.| If the speed of light is no longer the limit even for human science... |
It is still the limit for transmitting information, which includes humans and aliens, as far as human science is concerned.| ...I certainly don't feel comfortable stating that it is a limit for aliens. Humans went from horseback to the moon in a single century. |
Previous successes in technology are not predictive of the future performance of science. The fastest spacecraft that's leaving our solar system that we've ever built was Voyager 1, and that was based on 1970s technology. No interstellar spacecraft has gone faster in the last 30+ years, even though Voyager 1 is putt-putting along at a mere 38,185 mph, which is about 0.0057% of the speed of light.
(Yes, the Helios probes went almost four times faster - about two ten-thousandths of c - on their closest approach to the Sun, but they weren't leaving the solar system for worlds beyond.)| Now we're breaking the speed of light barrier. |
No, we're not.| It's unwise to assume the scientific limitations of a technological society centuries, millennia, perhaps millions of years more advanced than our own. |
It's unwise to assume that there are any such societies.| Having said that, I'm not convinced that these beings travel inter-stellarly in the first place. I don't think that is accurate. |
Then where do they come from?Then you ask: "why would they bother to visit our racketty little mudball in the first place? What is so attractive about us and our world that they must visit?"
To which I would answer, have you looked at the rest of the solar system? Spend a week or two on Neptune. Or Mercury. or Jupiter, or the moons. Then tell me how lousy the Earth is. This planet is a rare jewel, vast oceans of liquid water, amazing bio-diversity, just the right temperature range, natural resources. An atmosphere, a moon big enough to add rotational stability. Earth is priceless, a miraculous place, though it's easy for us to forget that these days. |
The arrogance of place and rank anthropocentrism in this statement is simply astonishing coming from someone who dares to lecture us about having proper humility in the face of unknowable scientific advances.
For most of the history of life on Earth, oxygen has been a waste product and the current temperatures would be like trying to live inside a refrigerator! For ET, Earth could be 3/4ths covered in a poisonous soup topped off with an unbearably thick and nasty-smelling atmosphere. Yet based on no evidence whatsoever, you assume that because it's nice for us that every other species in the universe will see it that way, too. Try telling that to deep-sea anemones that explode when you bring them to the surface, or the anaerobic bacteria that die when exposed to normal air. Room temperature is far too hot for the lichen living inside of rocks in Antarctica, and far too cold for things that live in the Yellowstone hot-springs.
Yes, our own biosphere provides plenty of ready counter-examples to your "rare jewel" hypothesis. The fact that evolution has driven life on this particular planet to fill some radically different niches and thus provide a huge amount of diversity does nothing to change the fact that one individual's paradisaical niche is another individual's hell-hole. This planet may have "vast oceans of liquid water" but that doesn't mean my cat will enjoy a swim. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 01:38:45 [Permalink]
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I'm not sure if there's anything to be gained by responding to Dave W. But, I'm not looking to gain anything, and Dave is clearly a very intelligent man who is adding a lot of good information to the conversation, It would be rude to ignore what He's saying. Although he's accused me of being insulting, arrogant, playing in the mud, etc. with nearly everything I've said, which is truly not my intent, there's probably more truth to what he says than I would like. I'm certain there is nothing I can say to him that he wants to hear, but I want to try to clarify some things I've said that I feel he has misrepresented somewhat.
I didn't bring up the speed of light, someone else brought it up as an absolute limit, and I just question if that is the case. I'm no "nuclear pharmacist", and I'd be out of my depth even pretending to discuss the issue intelligently. All I can say is it seems that a lot of scientists claim they can soon, or already have, broken the FTL rule in one way or another. I do remember widespread media coverage a year or two ago regarding an experiment where they successfully teleported photons embedded with information. I heard about it and read a little about it on NPR and BBC, some sources I feel do a pretty good job. Whether it turns out to be another cold-fusion story I don't know.
Dave W. says:
| Even if this result holds up under the criticism it has received from other physicists (see the Wikipedia article linked to by filthy), photons traveling FTL for three whole feet is again a far cry from sending a whole human or alien across light years at similar speeds. |
I certainly agree with that, Dave W. No one is contesting that current attempts or potential successes in FTL are only a starting point. The contention was whether it could be possible to do it at all, or if it was impossible.
When someone asked me why would the aliens choose to come to Earth, my response was:
| This planet is a rare jewel, vast oceans of liquid water, amazing bio-diversity, just the right temperature range, natural resources. An atmosphere, a moon big enough to add rotational stability. Earth is priceless, a miraculous place, though it's easy for us to forget that these days. |
Dave responded:
The arrogance of place and rank anthropocentrism in this statement is simply astonishing coming from someone who dares to lecture us about having proper humility in the face of unknowable scientific advances.
For most of the history of life on Earth, oxygen has been a waste product and the current temperatures would be like trying to live inside a refrigerator! For ET, Earth could be 3/4ths covered in a poisonous soup topped off with an unbearably thick and nasty-smelling atmosphere. Yet based on no evidence whatsoever, you assume that because it's nice for us that every other species in the universe will see it that way, too. Try telling that to deep-sea anemones that explode when you bring them to the surface, or the anaerobic bacteria that die when exposed to normal air. Room temperature is far too hot for the lichen living inside of rocks in Antarctica, and far too cold for things that live in the Yellowstone hot-springs.
Yes, our own biosphere provides plenty of ready counter-examples to your "rare jewel" hypothesis. The fact that evolution has driven life on this particular planet to fill some radically different niches and thus provide a huge amount of diversity does nothing to change the fact that one individual's paradisaical niche is another individual's hell-hole. This planet may have "vast oceans of liquid water" but that doesn't mean my cat will enjoy a swim. |
The lichen you mention, the deep-sea anemones, the life-forms in Yellowstone's hot springs, these creatures you mention in an effort to counter my suggestion that Earth is a rare jewel, They all live here on that rare jewel, Earth, don't they? Yes, I agree they live under extremely different conditions here on Earth, this seems only to support my point that Earth has amazing bio-diversity.
But when I call the Earth a "rare jewel", and you respond "The arrogance of place and rank anthropocentrism in this statement is simply astonishing ", I thought that was a little insulting, but if that's how you feel, so be it.
You accuse me here:
| you assume that because it's nice for us that every other species in the universe will see it that way, too. |
No, I don't. The aliens have told me directly what they think of the Earth, and there are more than one alien species that consider the Earth, and not necessarily humanity, to be very important. Whether they consider other worlds in our solar system of importance too I cannot say. Other than the moon.
You're an intelligent guy, Dave W., I'd rather have you as a friend. If your goal is to 'beat me', we should just declare you the winner and move on. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 03:18:44 [Permalink]
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Maybe I shouldn't have started with my first encounter, perhaps I should discuss another incident that happened a few years later, it's more unusual, and involves my mother and brothers as well. Let me just give an outline of the event and I can answer any questions on the details.
It was February of 1973. My brothers and I were home from school, either a snow-day or vacation, we sat in the living room of our home and watched syndicated re-runs of 60s shows like Gilligan's Island and I dream of Jeanie. My mother was in the kitchen making us lunch, it was early afternoon.
Suddenly my mother screamed a blood curdling scream. I yelled, "What's wrong? What happened?" as I hopped of the couch to go to her.
She responded, "They came back!" breathless, in absolute terror, "Omigod why did they have to come back! Oh my God!"
I'm thinking who is it that has her this upset? When I entered the dining room, I could see out the picture window into the backyard and I could see what she saw. There was an upright egg-shaped silver craft sitting on legs/struts, and there were three aliens; one standing by the opened door to the craft, and two very different beings walking up to the house.
I could hear their voices in my head as they repeated "do not panic, you will not be harmed, please stay calm, do not attempt to flee, you may injure yourself. Please remain where you are." Over and over, almost like a recording, or a mantra.
I went to lock the back door, the kitchen door, before they could come in, my mother said , "no, that won't work, come on we have to hide," she brushed past me, scooping up my two younger brothers and racing upstairs to hide.
As I moved towards the back door to lock it, the aliens read my mind and knew what I was doing, and they froze me where I stood, I was unable to move, watchinmg helplessly as one strange alien being came in the back door, while the other simply walked through the solid glass picture window and surrounding wall.
I've been asked many times, "If the one alien could walk through the solid wall, why did the other open the back door and walk in normally? Aha! Gotcha! Inconsistancy!" I agree, it is an inconsistancy. The aliens act in many contradictory ways, I don't know why. I don't know why they chose to land a ship in our suburban backyard in the middle of the day rather than the dead of night. I have no idea. It's a ballsy move, I'll give 'em that.
So I stood there, frozen in place while these two beings put their words in my head, and I lost it, I just lost my shit and screamed like I have never screamed before. The leader, the taller one that had come through the back door put his hand on my head and told me to stop screaming/be silent, and at that point I became completely calm.
Yes, I am claiming to have experienced "telepathy" or something very much like it, as outrageous a claim as that is. The sensation is very hard to describe, but I can elaborate a little if anyone's interested.
Long story short, just to plow through with this outline of events: They marched us out into the craft in the backyard, we took off, they brought us to a base or facility of some kind that seemed carved out of solid rock, very whitish-grey rock, with a river running through it. There were a great deal of other people there, brought by many other aliens, it was some sort of processing facility, to what end I don't know. Most of the people were in a trance as they were led here and there, grouped together, some were completely naked. Some , however, seemed very aware and alert, and terrified of the situation, keeping their terror quiet out of fear of angering these beings.The separated my family, I did some time on the table as is usually the case. They brought my family and I back in the same ship, and during the 'flight', I got up, I moved closer to the 'pilots' because I was very eager to see the view from high in the air, to look down on my city, my neighborhood. As I say, my fear was gone since the first physical contact as I stood frozen in the doorway of the kitchen.
The aliens were upset that I was moving about, they put me back, and argued about it. We landed, and my family was marched inside, still in a trance, and told to go directly to bed. The one alien stopped me for a minute, it knew I felt hurt that I was yelled at for just being curious and wanting to see the view. It told me, " If you had touched certain things/controls, you could have killed us all, killed your entire family, this would have been our fault, we are responsible for your safety." I went inside, it was now getting dark, which in February is like 5 in the afternoon, and I tried to get my brother to talk about what had just happened, but he fell asleep in front of me on the couch. I followed him , falling into a deep deep sleep.
Next thing I remember, my father is home, bellowing, "Jesus Christ, why are all the lights off? Where is your mother? Why is she sleeping?"
Forgive any typos or poorly-worded phrases, I'm not a writer. Thank you. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 07:45:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
To respond to Filthy -
Yes, it's a beautiful area, all of my family's experiences with aliens have taken place in the Hudson Valley. I'd be curious to hear about your sighting too, anytime you want to discuss it.
To respond to Dr. Mabuse -
My parents got me a really small black and white TV for my room, the screen was probably about 7". It was a 'portable', with giant long rabbit ears.
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Ain't much to tell, really.
This happened in the late '70s, A couple of friends who were house-sitting a place on Fairfield Hill, overlooking St. Albans and the lake invited my girlfriend and I over for eggplant parmesan (don't knock it 'till you've tried it), music and a little smoke. We were sitting out on the back deck when my girlfriend saw it; a light in the sky.
The day was almost done and it was getting dark fast. The object was high enough to still catch some light, and it moved erratically , then turned, zipped off and disappeared. We discused it, made a few lame War of the Worlds jokes, and went back to the music. If anyone else in the area saw this anomoly, they weren't saying.
Okhamm's Razor states that given the available evidence, the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. A simple explanation is a balloon of some sort and it's movements can be attributed to moderate high-atmospheric winds. It dissappeared due to losing the sunlight. An alien visitation is far and away too complicated for more than the least of considerations.
Oh, and I knew people who had seen Champ. Unfortunately, I don't know the magnification power of the bottles they saw it through. 
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 08:56:52 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
I didn't bring up the speed of light, someone else brought it up as an absolute limit, and I just question if that is the case. I'm no "nuclear pharmacist", and I'd be out of my depth even pretending to discuss the issue intelligently. All I can say is it seems that a lot of scientists claim they can soon, or already have, broken the FTL rule in one way or another. |
That's the popular media version of it anyway. Scientific litteracy in media is a joke, and what you have read about "broken rules of FTL" is either a misrepresentation of scientist's work, or simple misunderstanding.
The confusion probably rooted in the fact that the speed of photons change depending on the media in which it is propagating.
For example, a light pulse through an fiber-optic cable propagates at 200'000 km/s (speed of light in fiber optics). In this experiment, I will send an electrical signal in parallel through a paper-coated pure copper wire I specifically chilled to -100°C. The signal will travel at 270'000 km/s through the copper wire. Voila! I've managed to send information faster than the speed of light.
But did I truly break any rules of FTL?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 09:41:00 [Permalink]
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Filthy,
That sounds like a wonderful night in the 1970s, if this country ever had a better decade to live in, I don't know what it was... women, music, weed, and eggplant parmesan...that was truly living! No Aids, no Reaganomics.
Only you can determine if the movements of what you saw can really be explained away by atmospheric conditions...
Dr. Mabuse,
Thank you for the information, why do I feel like I'm failing your class this semester?
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2011 : 09:48:35 [Permalink]
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So... why should anyone remain open to your claim that these were aliens any more than they should be open to the idea that you were hallucinating, dreaming, the victim of a hoax or simply making this stuff up as you go along?
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METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
