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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 03/10/2011 : 00:54:37 [Permalink]
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angry baby says: I used to think that getting in this guy's head might show us something new about his subset of humanity and how to better address it as skeptics, but the past couple of days have convinced me that le Penseur is instead giving us the same old song-and-dance, just with ET costumes instead of Bigfoot or Jesus. Thus, the effort I'm willing to expend in putting on the kid gloves to ensure his continued presence here is minimal. He really doesn't have anything to teach us.
Perhaps the next UFO believer who comes along will be different. We'll have to wait and see. |
Get into my head? My "subset of humanity"? what subset is that exactly, the subset that is intelligent? You write code for a living. Not exactly a career for a shining beacon of knowledge.
Nothing to teach you? I have already taught you a great deal, your problem is that you still haven't learned it.
And you hide behind your choice of words, wrapped safely in your euphemistic womb..."the next UFO believer"...
I'm not a UFO believer, I'm a person who is aware of the reality of aliens and abductions, through first hand knowledge.
BELIEF is what you have. You guess about aliens, and you believe in your guesses. Trouble is, you've guessed completely wrong. But this is your clubhouse, so you have your own support group of denial.
Just so long as you realize that throughout the world, it is your "subset of humanity" that attempt to deny the reality of aliens, that is growing smaller and smaller year by year. Your position will continue to grow harder and harder to defend as the things I have stated become more obviously true. That's okay, it's just evolution at work.
Where you skeptics fail is that you think NOTHING unusual is real, and as a result you're only right on about half your topics, maybe less. Just rundown the list, let's see...
Aliens? Real.
Jesus? not real
Ghosts? Real.
Hoaxed moon landing? not real.
9/11? False flag operation.
See? Like everything in life, it's a little of column A, a little of Column B.
Kil, Thanks for allowing me to post.
BNGBUCK, thanks for the insightful comments, You're so much brighter than these people, I'm not sure why you would want to be in here either. It's like a class that failed Remedial Reality. But if you enjoy their company, so be it. I will probably get in touch.
At the very least I need a break. I'm out of patience with the level of Fundamentalist Denial. All I can do is lead them to water, I can't make them think.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program.
When I came in I believe you were pretending Dr. Mitchell was insane because you don't want to believe alien are real. Please continue.
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 03:10:23 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur....
| BNGBUCK, thanks for the insightful comments, You're so much brighter than these people, I'm not sure why you would want to be in here either. It's like a class that failed Remedial Reality. But if you enjoy their company, so be it. I will probably get in touch. |
Thanks for your farewell note. I wish you well and hope no future abductions result in any harm to you or yours. You give me hope with your comment that you may get in touch. Some time back, I was pretty sure that you would be driven away by much of what you found here, but nothing ventured, nothing gained. I certainly tried to the best of my ability to persuade you to stay. It is sad.
It really has little to do with enjoying the company. You should read some of my fan mail!
It does have to do with learning - there actually are fountains of information flowing in these gardens. And as far as "Bright" is concerned - I think that was Dawkin's term or one of the high profile guys. It did not set well here when I naïvely called them a group of "Brights" I think that is when the animosity started and it has nicely grown ever since. You know of course the adage about the little acorn. I stay here for recreation, exercise and education, and I have received much of all three.....for which I am grateful.
Goodbye Le Penseur. If you do reestablish contact, please use my e-mail. My mailbox here is full and I don't want to delete many posts that I treasure for various reasons. I may not be on board, and although I lurk quite a bit when I am not actively posting, if I am traveling I really get completely away from this environment. Every so often, it gets to be a little much for me too.I try to keep up on my e-mail even if I am out of the country, however. So use bngbuck@roadrunner.com and I will be really happy to talk to you wherever I happen to be.
Bill Buck
Coeur d'Alene ID |
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 09:52:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Fripp uses "i.e." in conjunction with this sentence which, of course, translates to id est or "that is". I am really uncertain what the i.e. means here in this context. Maybe Fripp would like to clear this up?
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I *thought* I was clear but perhaps my written attempts at humor are lacking (very likely). My intention was to quote LP then follow that with an i.e. and what LP really meant in quotation marks.
But obviously I failed... |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 10:23:17 [Permalink]
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le Penseur:
Where you skeptics fail is that you think NOTHING unusual is real, and as a result you're only right on about half your topics, maybe less. |
That's just not correct. But you know... the "truthers" say the same thing about us, as I have pointed out before. Most of us didn't say you weren't abducted. On the other hand, we have a fairly high standard where it comes to evidence. There is so much in nature that is unusual, extraordinary and some even come with explanations that are counter intuitive. We have no problem with that as long as the evidence is there to support, at least tentatively, a conclusion. ALL of our conclusions are tentative. That leaves the door open for reevaluating everything, really. Even your claims!
You have not even tried to understand us. All I see here is what I usually see from those whose claims we question. And you could have helped with that, which was my plea to you, over and over again. Tell your story. But no. And so it goes... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 11:05:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Le Penseur....
| BNGBUCK, thanks for the insightful comments, You're so much brighter than these people, I'm not sure why you would want to be in here either. It's like a class that failed Remedial Reality. But if you enjoy their company, so be it. I will probably get in touch. |
Thanks for your farewell note. I wish you well and hope no future abductions result in any harm to you or yours.
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I suspect he is physically safe from paranormal harm. Unless the ghost become angry because he never talks about them.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 12:17:35 [Permalink]
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I have a question: If ghosts are real, then how is it that Jesus was not? After all, his existence is much better documented than, say, your late uncle Abner who used to work down at the iron foundry, until the muller ate him.
Do we see the inconsistency, here?
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 14:55:12 [Permalink]
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Moakley.....
| Unless the ghost become angry because he never talks about them. |
Filthy refers a few posts back to Deus ex machina It is a very apt metaphor for much that has been going on here recently, particularly if you loosen the definition of Deus to Umbra But it is metaphor.
I am not at all sure as to what Le Penseur was referring, nor whether or not it is related to Aliens. I intend to find out from LP An angry Ghost (or angry Alien} is pretty scary indeed. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/10/2011 : 15:09:03 [Permalink]
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Filthy.....
| If ghosts are real, then how is it that Jesus was not? |
Maybe LP meant Jesus as presented in the Bible. I have always considered the historical Jesus as a possible phenonenon separate from the less possible Biblical Jesus phenomenon. Is either story related to Aliens in any way? Again, I have no idea. Right now!
It may indeed be an inconsistency in LP's narrative. I intend to add it to my lengthy list of questions to LP when I have the opportunity to talk to him. Many are concerned with what they see as incosistencies related by LP. |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 04:19:54 [Permalink]
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To quote Al Pacino in Godfather 3, "They keep pulling me back in!"
Filthy writes: I have a question: If ghosts are real, then how is it that Jesus was not? After all, his existence is much better documented than, say, your late uncle Abner who used to work down at the iron foundry, until the muller ate him.
Do we see the inconsistency, here? |
Um, no. Actually Filthy, you couldn't be more incorrect. You say the existence of Jesus is much better documented than an uncle of mine who has passed away? That's simply untrue.
The only documentation of the existence of Jesus Christ are the four books of the gospel, which were written between 80 years and 150 years AFTER the birth of this alleged Jesus Christ. None of these books were written by anyone who actually met Jesus Christ.
In fact, there is no mention of Jesus Christ during his entire lifetime, or for decades after his alleged death, despite the many historians in the region at the time, and the meticulous record-keeping of the Romans. There have been a lot of stories written about Jesus in the centuries since, but they couldn't be considered documentation any more than a Batman comic is documentation.
Further, there is no account of any kind of the life of Jesus Christ from the ages of 13 - 30.
Now, documentation of the existence of my uncle?
1.A birth certificate (more documentation than some prominent people can produce)
2. Photographic documentation of an entire lifetime, home movies, play on a high school sports team and the games are videotaped. Even a lot of third-party images of my uncle, cameras in parking garages, from security cameras. Every visit to a bank or supermarket.
3. a lifetime of medical records; documents like X rays, MRI cat scans, ultra-sounds. Even such meticulous points of documentation like cardiograms and genetic testing.
4. School records provide more than a decade of meticulous documentation.
5. Children, whose lineage can be genetically established.
6. my uncle's handwritten papers, even the hundreds of signatures on canceled checks.
Nobody has Christ's autograph.
7. wedding announcements, social security numbers, library card, gym membership and photo id, drivers license, credit rating, mortgages, bank loans.
8. A body. A physical body.
You see, there is far more documentation that my uncle, or your uncle, existed, than documentation Jesus Christ existed.
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/11/2011 : 05:21:47 [Permalink]
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Ever seen a foundry muller? You would have no body at all; just a quantity of mangled meat & offal with bone shards and some cloth in it, all smoothly blended with sand and resin.
Jesus the rabbi, the human not the alleged god, lived in a time when there were no birth certificates nor indeed very much personal documentation at all. And few could read what there was. But the guy was charismatic and managed to gather a large enough following so as to piss the authorities off. Since then, the paperwork has been and continues to multiply, albeit mostly apologetic bullshit. He is a lot better documented than Uncle Abner, for which we have only DNA to ID him. If indeed, he ever existed as other than a figment of my imagination.
Ol' Ab (or Ab's equivalent) has a few scraps of paper; Jesus has libraries. Both left this mortal coil in a messy and disgusting way. So I ask; which became the ghost, Ab or The Naz?
I answer myself: Neither.
Popular media to the contrary, like alien space craft there is as yet no reason to believe that ghosts exist and the only spirits we're gonna get will be from the 'still-house package store. I suspect that this last provided the inspiration for a great many "sightings" for both.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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| Edited by - filthy on 03/11/2011 07:13:29 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 06:01:42 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Moakley.....
| Unless the ghost become angry because he never talks about them. |
Filthy refers a few posts back to Deus ex machina It is a very apt metaphor for much that has been going on here recently, particularly if you loosen the definition of Deus to Umbra But it is metaphor.
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I, too, saw it as apt. Apt in regard to the contrived explanations in support of the improbable.
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Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 08:12:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
You see, there is far more documentation that my uncle, or your uncle, existed, than documentation Jesus Christ existed.
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Let me quote something le Penseur himself wrote in response here (emphasis added):
Your stated goal is a laudable one "show us the proof", but the fact is, you yourself could not successfully prove in this forum what you had for breakfast last Sunday. Oh, you could show a picture or video of you eating , but we all know such things are easily photoshopped. You could provide witness statements from all the witnesses in the diner who saw you eat it, but that's simply anecdotal, right?
So no one here can "prove" something so simple as last Sunday's breakfast in this chatroom, yet you set up a charade where you pretend you think I'd be able to once and for all settle the alien question to everyone's satisfaction. And, unless I could do so here in this forum, then anything I have to say is worthless. Is that open-mindedness in action? |
Seems to me like you're quite closed-minded here... What gives? |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 09:30:25 [Permalink]
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filthy: | Jesus the rabbi, the human not the alleged god, lived in a time when there were no birth certificates nor indeed very much personal documentation at all. And few could read what there was. |
No shit. Hence, no documentation. You haven't a shred of evidence this character existed, outside of four books written a hundred years later that turn him into a god. LOL If you aren't going to take your own claims seriously, why should I bother to respond?
| Since then, the paperwork has been and continues to multiply, albeit mostly apologetic bullshit. |
None of which is documentation, glad you admit that. They continue to write Harry Potter books too.
| He is a lot better documented than Uncle Abner, for which we have only DNA to ID him. |
Your question was whose existence is better documented, not whose cadaver could be ID'ed. But even by that standards, the uncle wins. Jesus has no remains, no dna.
I guess you simply chose to ignore my list. Here it is again.
Now, documentation of the existence of my uncle?
1.A birth certificate (more documentation than some prominent people can produce)
2. Photographic documentation of an entire lifetime, home movies, play on a high school sports team and the games are videotaped. Even a lot of third-party images of my uncle, cameras in parking garages, from security cameras. Every visit to a bank or supermarket.
3. a lifetime of medical records; documents like X rays, MRI cat scans, ultra-sounds. Even such meticulous points of documentation like cardiograms and genetic testing.
4. School records provide more than a decade of meticulous documentation.
5. Children, whose lineage can be genetically established.
6. my uncle's handwritten papers, even the hundreds of signatures on canceled checks.
Nobody has Christ's autograph.
7. wedding announcements, social security numbers, library card, gym membership and photo id, drivers license, credit rating, mortgages, bank loans.
8. A body. A physical body.
You see, there is far more documentation that my uncle existed, than documentation Jesus Christ existed.
In fact, there is no more documentation for the existence of Jesus Christ than there is for Huckleberry Finn, or Sherlock Holmes. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 10:27:36 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur.....
Welcome back, Le Penseur. I say that from the bottom of my heart and the center of my brain. You have just made my day and most of my month, I suspect. Hope you can answer some more alien questions while you are here!
Bill |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/11/2011 : 10:55:53 [Permalink]
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Moakley.....
| I, too, saw it as apt. Apt in regard to the contrived explanations in support of the improbable. |
Very well put and exactly illustrates the true meaning of Deus ex machina. I especially commend you for your use of the word "improbable", but nothing stronger. If I had written your post, I would have said something like "open to question". I also would not have chosen the word "contrived"
But, as been discussed elsewhere in this copious thread, I am not a Skeptic - at least in the formal sense that you and many others here are. So I do not intend this as criticism. If I were a formal "Skeptic", I would have worded it exactly as you did. And it was an astute observation!
One of the things I think I have learned recently, is that the word "agnostic" does not properly exist in the Skeptic's lexicon. I did not know that a short time ago.
What is your view on this, Moakley? |
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
