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le Penseur
Banned
USA
142 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:26:38 [Permalink]
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Fripp: "the only other person who accepts what i have to say without evidence"
I believe that I am the person to whom Le Penseur is referring here. |
I never made that statement. Stop lying, please. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:36:33 [Permalink]
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Big Papa Smurf.....
| Hmm, I'm beginning to think that you are all masochists to endure this nonsense, |
Except for the few of us that do not necessarily think that it is nonsense. I think I can speak for Kil, at least, and myself in that no, we are not masochists, no, we are not "enduring" anything. We seriously want LP to finish his narrative.| P.S. Fripp, owning people is illegal in this country.;) |
BPS I think that Fripp was using a figure of speech. Oh, I just noticed the attempted Smiley. I guess you know that already, BPS! |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:45:07 [Permalink]
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Dave.....
I certainly did not intend to stop him. I may have, however, done so inadvertently. I have already explained and apologized to Le Penseur, but I should probably extend that apology to you, Dave, if, in fact, Le Penseur does leave, and you really do wish LP to remain here. Kil has so stated, is that essentially correct, Dave? |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 17:47:58 [Permalink]
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Hal.....
It's a reminder, to me, that humility and rationality are two sides of the same coin.
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I like that portion of your post very much, Hal. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:08:04 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by le Penseur
Want to pretend it's an insect? I bet you do. |
No, I want a reasonable explanation of what it is. Insect seems to fit the bill.
| Sorry, It clearly goes BEHIND the clouds, which were at a ceiling of 5,000 feet that day. Wow. Mighty big insect! Better get the BIG can of raid! lol |
That's not at all clear to me. It seems to pass in front of only cloud shown in the YouTube video, at least, but it's so out of focus and blurred that it is difficult to tell. Also, if the object is small, it would be easily lost against the brightness of the clouds as it passed across it.
And what's with the continued sarcasm? You're are the one favoring an improbably explanation over a completely mundane one, so if anyone's position is deserving of ridicule it is yours. Yet if I can abstain, I don't see why you cannot. But if you want to get nasty, don't go crying later that we were mean people who wouldn't listen to you.
| Sorry to "swat" your easily invalidated theory. |
You haven't invalidated anything. You've just made bold declarations and asserted them to be fact. I still think it's an insect, despite the spurious analyses you've provided. For one, I've seen enough so-called "video experts" duped enough times to take most of their conclusions with a grain of salt.
I mean, listen to this reasoning: "Although most rod images have been demonstrated to be flying insects frozen in flight...the extensions or wings on the [Albany, NY] object do not seem to alternate as they do in images of alleged rods."
So videos of rods have been proven to be insects in flight--but some of the blurry bits on this object seem behave slightly differently--therefore it is more likely to be an alien craft that just so happens to look identical to earthly insects. I mean, what are the odds on that, le Penseur? These aliens travels millions of miles to a planet that just happens to have as its most prevalent life form a creature which appears identical in flight when recorded with a digital video camera as their own ships! What a fortuitous coincidence! Especially considering they don't want their existence known. Now they can just joyride across the sky in broad daylight and everyone will think they are insects!
And furthermore if the object was actually distant enough to be behind the clouds, then it would have been HUGE and traveling well above supersonic speeds. Yet no sonic boom was recorded? Or can that too be explained away by appealing to alien technology? They do seem to have an invention for everything.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/09/2011 18:31:21 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:10:08 [Permalink]
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Humbert.....
| bngbuck, since all of your posts seem to boil down to either gratuitous insults or gratuitous ass-kissing, it would save time and thread space if you skipped the needless verbiage and merely listed a name and whichever of these two icons apply: |
--------Two clever icons--------
Thanks for your suggestion, Humbert. That was a truly clever and funny post. I hope we can have a bit more of that kind of thing around here. Beats the hell out of four-letter words and endless self-rightousness. I know, me too! OK?
By the way, Humbert, Is Kil correct in stating that you would like for Le Penseur to stay here and respond to questions? Answer as you wish, of course, but just yes or no is fine with me, if you would prefer to be brief. If you don't want to answer, I will simply have to continue to guess. |
| Edited by - bngbuck on 03/09/2011 18:54:25 |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:21:14 [Permalink]
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I'd like Le Penseur to take the opportunity here to at least come to some understanding of why skeptics are unconvinced by the types of evidence typically presented, learn the sorts of things that would be more convincing, and drop the attitude. Even if we never agree, he has as much to learn from us as we potentially do from him. But for some reason he seems more interested in getting angry when his evidence is questioned than in looking for ways to make it better. I'm beginning to suspect that his motive is not to enlighten to world about the existence of UFOs, but rather to feed his ego and feel superior to those he feels are unenlightened.
And if that's the case, then I don't see why we should indulge him.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
| Edited by - H. Humbert on 03/09/2011 18:31:42 |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 18:40:15 [Permalink]
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Le Penseur
Thank you for returning."the only other person who accepts what i have to say without evidence"
I believe that I am the person to whom Le Penseur is referring here. |
| I never made that statement. Stop lying, please. |
LP,you are addressing Fripp here, is that correct?
There are two sentences in the quote you posted - Fripp wrote one and I wrote the other. I have searched this thread exhaustively, and I cannot find where you made the statement that he ascribes to you. So I think you are correct in stating that that is not a quotation from you.
Fripp uses "i.e." in conjunction with this sentence which, of course, translates to id est or "that is". I am really uncertain what the i.e. means here in this context. Maybe Fripp would like to clear this up?
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 19:03:08 [Permalink]
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Humbert.....
| And if that's the case, then I don't see why we should indulge him. |
Just a suggestion. Perhaps to try to learn something? That is my interest, in addition to ass-kissing and gratuitous insult. You are reasonably expert at the latter, HH, but I gather that you are not familiar with the former. Just be careful to carefully choose the gender, so there can be minimum confusion when you do go out to get a life! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 19:14:36 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
| Sorry, It clearly goes BEHIND the clouds, which were at a ceiling of 5,000 feet that day. Wow. Mighty big insect! Better get the BIG can of raid! lol |
That's not at all clear to me. It seems to pass in front of only cloud shown in the YouTube video, at least, but it's so out of focus and blurred that it is difficult to tell. Also, if the object is small, it would be easily lost against the brightness of the clouds as it passed across it. |
That looks like a common optical saturation artifact in which thin, dark objects get washed out by bright, scattered light. It's the same thing that's responsible for Apollo-mission photographs in which the registration cross-hairs appear to go "behind" bright objects, like these:
Just another mundane phenomenon which most people don't know about or understand, which gives them room to shove in whatever explanation appeals to them the most.
So le Penseur, in defending the video, has given us an argument based on a false premise (that the object "clearly goes BEHIND the clouds," when it's definitely not clear at all), and an argument from Amy Herbert's authority. Furthermore, neither of these criteria are similar to any of the criteria le Penseur used when declaring the Haiti video to be fake, or the Moscow video to be indeterminate, which leads me to believe that his method isn't methodical at all, but instead consists of the use of whatever arguments are required to satisfy himself in whatever he wants to believe. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 19:34:29 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Humbert.....| And if that's the case, then I don't see why we should indulge him. |
Just a suggestion. Perhaps to try to learn something? |
So far, le Penseur's statements have differed in no substantial way from those of creationists, Moon-landing deniers or 9/11 Truthers. Only the subject matter is different, the statements and arguments boil down to the same bad logic, confirmation bias, psychological projection and rejection of empiricism.
I used to think that getting in this guy's head might show us something new about his subset of humanity and how to better address it as skeptics, but the past couple of days have convinced me that le Penseur is instead giving us the same old song-and-dance, just with ET costumes instead of Bigfoot or Jesus. Thus, the effort I'm willing to expend in putting on the kid gloves to ensure his continued presence here is minimal. He really doesn't have anything to teach us.
Perhaps the next UFO believer who comes along will be different. We'll have to wait and see. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 20:00:22 [Permalink]
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Dave:
Perhaps the next UFO believer who comes along will be different. We'll have to wait and see. |
Yeah. I'm pretty much almost there too. I keep trying but to no avail. It's like I'm posting in a vacuum with le Penseur. Bill may like my posts but I'm not sure if he's noticed that they are being completely ignored by our guest. Oh well...
I haven't given up all hope yet, but it's fading fast. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 20:15:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Hal.....
It's a reminder, to me, that humility and rationality are two sides of the same coin.
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I like that portion of your post very much, Hal.
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Its a coin that you seem to have recently misplaced Bill.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/09/2011 : 20:21:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
And furthermore if the object was actually distant enough to be behind the clouds, then it would have been HUGE and traveling well above supersonic speeds. Yet no sonic boom was recorded? |
And no contrail...
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
 Posted - 03/09/2011 : 21:54:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by bngbuck
Filthy......
| Ok, I'll take it back and add the declaration that God exists. |
as long as it is an afterthought, that's OK with me. Actually, that's OK with me anyway. I would love to hear you, of all people, elaborate on that declaration!| What would I do with said photo? You ain't gonna like it, but I would simply frame it and hang it on the wall. |
Why in the world would I not like what you did with the photo? If I knew that you had such a rarity and you wanted to sell it, I would offer you a pretty penny for it. Yes, Filthy, I would take your word on it's authenticity - I know, I know you are not a good guy by your own pronouncemrnt, but I honestly believe you are an honest guy.
If you wanted to sell it, I would subject it to exactly the same procedures that I outlined for the hypothetical case in which I took the picture myself!| But after all, in this day and age, who trusts a photograph anyway? I don't unless it's got a pretty damned good provenance. |
I would trust one that you stated was genuine, Filthy
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No! No no no no no! No!!
You might comfortably take my word for the mating ceremonies of the Eastern Diamondback Rattlesnake, but that'd be well short of an extraordinary claim. On the other hand, if I were to show up at your door with said picture(s), call the cops -- I'm probably running a scam.
In all seriousness, what we are dealing with here is pure apologetics, not unlike what we see at AiG. The dues ex machina at nearly every turn clearly demonstrates that. However, I don't want le Penseur[/b] to leave. He gives us a rare and excellent insight into the UFO Community and he writes quite well, when he's not totally pissed. We can learn from him.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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ETs are here, despite guesses to the contrary
