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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 00:49:11 [Permalink]
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| The reason I say it isn't a skill is because a person can be such a thing as too skeptical. For example when someone says "nothing would ever convert me", that is too skeptical. That's why people talk about "a healthy amount of skepticism". And yes I believe men are generally more skeptical, just as Dude believes men are more confrontational. |
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| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 04/30/2011 00:53:03 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 01:03:39 [Permalink]
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OFFC:
For example when someone says nothing "would ever convert me", that is too skeptical. |
"Nothing would ever convert me" is not a skeptical position. It's a dogmatic one. All skeptical conclusions are provisional.
OFFC:
And yes I believe men are more skeptical, just as Dude believes men are more confrontational. |
Dude never lived with my ex wife. Or my ex girlfriend for that matter.
Do you agree that woman are as capable of being just as skeptical as men are, or not?
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 01:20:13 [Permalink]
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| Do you agree that woman are as capable of being just as skeptical as men are, or not? |
I don't think all women have the same capabilities, or that they all have less capability than men.
I have simply found that in general they are less likely to assume a position of skepticism, for reasons unknown.
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 01:29:48 [Permalink]
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OFFC:
...or that they all have less capability than men. |
Or that all men have less capability than woman. Is that it? |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 01:53:04 [Permalink]
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| I don't know what you are driving at. I made an observation, I don't claim to know what the cause is whether it is inclination or capability or whatever, I am not going to speculate. |
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bngbuck
SFN Addict
USA
2437 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 09:10:52 [Permalink]
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Kil.....
| Dude never lived with my ex wife. Or my ex girlfriend for that matter. |
Ah yes...... But neither your wife or ex-girlfriend ever lived a minute with Dude! Think what that might have done to them! |
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
 Posted - 04/30/2011 : 09:55:31 [Permalink]
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OFFC
You are digging yourself into a hole very quickly. My advice is stop digging.
It is not critical thinking when making generalizations about men and women. YOu have to consider culture when trying to determine a gender's skill, abilities, etc. Enough studies have showed that here is subtle pressure for women not to go into certain fields, even now.
Women tend to prefer cooperation rather than competition (neither is better than the other). However, that is also changing. The best outcome is men and women is have some characteristics of the other gender. |
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 10:36:53 [Permalink]
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Well... No one can accuse me of not giving OFFC a way out at every turn.
Here's the thing. What we see on this forum is not a particularly good representation of woman in skepticism. Woman's involvement here waxes and wains. But generally speaking, there seems to be less female participation by woman on forums like this one. Both my ex-wife and my ex-girlfriend are skeptics. Both of them have contributed articles to this site, but neither of them are much interested in participating on the forum.
Over on facebook, I'll bet, without doing a head count, that half my skeptical friends are woman. And more than a few of them are leaders in the skeptical community. Those woman seem to prefer blogging and like me, networking with other skeptics, which facebook is very good for because of its format. So along with guys like me, a founder of a skeptic forum, there are woman who have blogs or podcasts, write for the CSI or Skeptic and even head an organization like the NCSE that leads charge against things like keeping creationism out of public science classrooms. What I see are many woman who are a part of the skeptical community, and their numbers are growing.
Fully half of this years TAM speakers are woman. TAM is the largest gathering of skeptics in the known universe.
So what I see is very different from what one might conclude if skeptical forums were the only game in town. We might wonder why there isn't more female participation on skeptic forums, but even if we arrive at a correct answer, that will tell us nothing about the number of female skeptics out there in general. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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On fire for Christ
SFN Regular
Norway
1273 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 12:05:40 [Permalink]
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You are digging yourself into a hole very quickly. My advice is stop digging.
It is not critical thinking when making generalizations about men and women. YOu have to consider culture when trying to determine a gender's skill, abilities, etc. |
I never made any comments about skills or abilities, in fact if you read my posts then you'd see I don't even define skepticism as a skill. So I really fail to see what holes I dug for myself. I see Kil things he cleverly manouvered me into something, but only he seems to know what that is. I've been accused of being racist and sexist on these boards before for speaking my mind, I have never felt the need to censor any of my opinions, no matter what perceived holes I am digging.
Enough studies have showed that here is subtle pressure for women not to go into certain fields, even now.
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Yes and maybe there is subtle pressure for them to be less skeptical.
But who is talking about the causes? I thought I was just talking about my observations.
| Women tend to prefer cooperation rather than competition (neither is better than the other). |
Hang on, so I can't make generalizations about levels of female skepticism, but you can make generalizations about female cooperation and competition? So do you want me to make this hole wider? We're a little cramped down here.
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| Edited by - On fire for Christ on 04/30/2011 12:09:41 |
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alienist
Skeptic Friend
USA
210 Posts |
Posted - 04/30/2011 : 20:04:13 [Permalink]
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Thanks, Kil, for the info and insights.
From OFFC "I have simply found that in general [women] are less likely to assume a position of skepticism, for reasons unknown."
Do you have any sources for that statement?
My statement "Enough studies have showed that here is subtle pressure for women not to go into certain fields, even now"
I couldn't find a reference for this specific statement, but have read some articles and books about this subject
My statement "Women tend to prefer cooperation rather than competition"
Again, I couldn't easily find a source for this statement, but it is based on what I have read. I did observe something interesting about my niece. She has two older brothers who have soldiers, cars, tanks, etc. When she was about 2 or so, she decided to put some soldiers in a car and pretend they were a family
I did laugh at your comment about offering to make the hole wider |
The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well! - Joe Ancis |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2011 : 02:27:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by alienist
From OFFC "I have simply found that in general [women] are less likely to assume a position of skepticism, for reasons unknown."
Do you have any sources for that statement? |
I think he just did. He said it was an observation he made, so obviously he himself is the source. Maybe his sample is not representative of the general population but skewed by specific demographics?
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/01/2011 02:27:48 |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2011 : 07:01:20 [Permalink]
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I find it humorous, as I always do when I see exchanges like this, when a bunch of men are arguing about why there aren't more women around.
originally posted by Kil | Over on facebook, I'll bet, without doing a head count, that half my skeptical friends are woman. And more than a few of them are leaders in the skeptical community. |
Don't underestimate how attractive you probably are to these women! |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2011 : 07:07:32 [Permalink]
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I was speaking in general terms, not about specific women. In general I think women are less confrontational than men. That could be a reason why fewer women argue on internet forums. I'm pretty sure that the overall numbers if women and men are evenly distributed in the skeptical community though, they just approach the problem differently.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2011 : 07:38:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dude
I was speaking in general terms, not about specific women. In general I think women are less confrontational than men. That could be a reason why fewer women argue on internet forums. I'm pretty sure that the overall numbers if women and men are evenly distributed in the skeptical community though, they just approach the problem differently.
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That's pretty close to how I see it. And again, my network of skeptics outside of this forum includes a lot more female skeptics. That's just a fact. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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froydnslp
New Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2011 : 21:44:25 [Permalink]
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One afternoon I was hanging with my friend and her boyfriend was getting dressed to go play basketball in the park. I could see the court from her front room. So I watched as he ran across the street and joined the game. I asked Em who these guys were. She said she didn't know. Pat didn't know them either. But every Sunday he woke up and joined whatever pick up game he could find. He just wanted to play the game. Didn't care about the guys and the guys didn't really care one way or the other about him.
It struck me as funny. Because as a woman, I would never just walk up to a random group of females doing whatever they were doing and join their whatever. There are possible reasons for this...and depending on my mood I have my own ideas. But the point is, most women don't just join a group of strangers for anything. (This is all general, and it's based on observations...and I'm breast feeding so I'm typing with one hand...so I'm not going to site anything so just lay off). In general, we females do parallel play. We will have mani pedis and make side comments to each other. But we rarely just run up to a group of others and join. I don't think any of this has to do with skepticism. I think it has a lot to do with how we express ourselves and how we experience each other.
Women are skeptics. We just don't necessarily join in the same way that a man might. In general. My observations. lalala. |
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Women skeptics
