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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 05/01/2011 : 23:38:24
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President’s Vow Fulfilled
WASHINGTON — President Obama’s announcement late Sunday that Osama bin Laden had been killed delivered not only a long-awaited prize to the United States, but also a significant victory for Mr. Obama, whose foreign policy has been the subject of persistent criticism by his rivals.
In the 2008 presidential campaign, Mr. Obama bluntly declared, “We will kill Bin Laden.” But as time passed, Bin Laden’s name had gradually fallen from presidential speeches and from political discourse, raising concern from critics that his administration was not sufficiently focused on the fight against terrorism.
In delivering the news from the East Room of the White House, as jubilant crowds gathered outside waving American flags and cheering in celebration, Mr. Obama did not address his critics or gloat about his trophy. He instead used the moment to remember the victims of the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks and to issue a new call to the nation for unity.
The development is almost certainly one of the most significant and defining moments yet in his presidency. It allows Mr. Obama to claim the biggest national security victory in a decade — something that eluded President George W. Bush for nearly eight years — and instantly burnishes his foreign policy credentials at a time when he has been questioned on his decisions on the Middle East... |
So there it is.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 00:11:26 [Permalink]
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| I'm not going to get all mushy and sentimental over Osama or pretend that he should be mourned. He was a murderer with blood on his hands. He deserved death. But I don't get why the media is telling us we should be feeling celebratory. Killing a man is still grim business. I can remember after 9-11 seeing savages in other countries cheer the carnage and dance in the streets with gleeful bloodlust. It sickened me to see a culture that could celebrate mass murder, and it sickens me no less to see it in the streets of my own country now. This isn't a game or a sporting match. I don't feel like anything was "won" today. I think our country has already lost too damn much over these wars already. We should all mourn the fact that we must live in a world where such things are necessary. |
"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 00:37:01 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
I'm not going to get all mushy and sentimental over Osama or pretend that he should be mourned. He was a murderer with blood on his hands. He deserved death. But I don't get why the media is telling us we should be feeling celebratory. Killing a man is still grim business. I can remember after 9-11 seeing savages in other countries cheer the carnage and dance in the streets with gleeful bloodlust. It sickened me to see a culture that could celebrate mass murder, and it sickens me no less to see it in the streets of my own country now. This isn't a game or a sporting match. I don't feel like anything was "won" today. I think our country has already lost too damn much over these wars already. We should all mourn the fact that we must live in a world where such things are necessary.
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Yup. He had to go. Sure. But dancing on someone's grave isn't necessary or good or dignified or anything but dumb. My hope is that it will be used as a pretext, however bogus it is, for getting us out of Afghanistan. I doubt that it will happen though. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 02:18:13 [Permalink]
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http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/05/02/why-was-bin-laden-buried-at-sea-so-quickly/
Oh hell, here comes the people saying it didn't happen.
There's a significant difference in celebrating the death of Bin Laden as opposed to celebrating the death of civilians on 9/11. Americans certainly don't typically celebrate the air strike mishaps that have killed civilians, not that I condone celebrating any deaths. |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 03:01:39 [Permalink]
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Well, good riddance!
I'm a little surprised; I'd thought he was likely already dead. And even now, I'd like to see the corpse just to confirm.
Does this mean that we can at last leave Bush’s Quagmire in Afghanistan? Probably not. Does it mean that we can at last shut down the Gitmo Obscenity? Same answer. So what then, is going to change? Y’all can answer that as you please.
But the world is now better for the demise of a murderous scumbag who ain‘t gonna get 72 virgins. Unfortunately, there’s plenty more of the ilk, no where near all of them Muslim, out there.
But gotta give a Well Done! To the S.E.A.Ls who planned and carried out the operation , and another to Obama as well.
And now the fun begins. As noted above, the birther types will go into denial and squeal forth tornados of hysterical rhetoric, most of it incomprehensible -- they speak about as well as they spell their signs.
So, here’s another question: How will this effect the upcoming election? Considering the clown show he’s running against, I think he’d win without breaking a sweat, anyway. But we shall see.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 03:22:50 [Permalink]
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American drunk-drivers kill around five times as many people each year, than was killed in the WTC-attack.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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The Rat
SFN Regular
Canada
1370 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 04:51:12 [Permalink]
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| I'm glad the bastard is gone, but I also mourn for a life wasted. He was no less capable of thought than any of us here, and instead of masterminding a group of thugs he could have been a hospital administrator, run a contracting company, been a teacher, bus driver, or a musician. He chose a path that caused misery and suffering, fortunately he will do that no more. |
Bailey's second law; There is no relationship between the three virtues of intelligence, education, and wisdom.
You fiend! Never have I encountered such corrupt and foul-minded perversity! Have you ever considered a career in the Church? - The Bishop of Bath and Wells, Blackadder II
Baculum's page: http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=3947338590 |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 05:19:11 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
American drunk-drivers kill around five times as many people each year, than was killed in the WTC-attack.
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What is your point? Are you suggesting that policy and priorities be set by body count? Since the early 1980 these drunk driving fatalities have been cut in half. That's pretty good progress, but since the annual body count still exceeds the events of that one day, just not good enough. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 07:38:20 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
American drunk-drivers kill around five times as many people each year, than was killed in the WTC-attack.
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Aside from not getting your point, you do know that bin Laden killed more Muslims than he did Americans, right? Also, drunk driving is against the law. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 08:05:20 [Permalink]
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I am becoming increasingly distraught listening to the mouth breathers here at work and on the radio talking about what they should have done with OBL's body rather than tossing it in the sea.
Every time I hear it being talked about it gives me images of Vlad Dracula.
" They should have taken his head and stuck it on a pole in front of the White House" is the most common idea I am hearing.
Oh how wonderful it is to live in a civilized nation. |
Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 08:41:34 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Ebone4rock
I am becoming increasingly distraught listening to the mouth breathers here at work and on the radio talking about what they should have done with OBL's body rather than tossing it in the sea.
Every time I hear it being talked about it gives me images of Vlad Dracula.
" They should have taken his head and stuck it on a pole in front of the White House" is the most common idea I am hearing.
Oh how wonderful it is to live in a civilized nation.
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I know. Sort it makes me uncomfortable to see people rejoicing and partyting, just as some radical Islamic groups rejoiced after 9/11. I mean, it's a bit unseemly to behave as they behaved. I think there is plenty of evidence to suggest that as western nations go, we are the least civilized of the bunch.
Mahatma Gandhi, when asked what he thought of Western civilization said: "I think it would be a good idea."
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 10:28:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by moakley
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
American drunk-drivers kill around five times as many people each year, than was killed in the WTC-attack.
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What is your point? |
I don't know, really. Just offering some perspective. G. W. Bush sent as many soldiers (as killed in 9/11) to their deaths in Iraq (not counting the hundred+ times more of Iraqis because of that invasion).
| Are you suggesting that policy and priorities be set by body count? Since the early 1980 these drunk driving fatalities have been cut in half. |
Isn't it an interesting idea? The financial cost of USA's invasion of Iraq, spent on automotive research and technology and drunk-driving awareness, could perhaps have reduced the fatalities to single digit percentage instead of just half. In only one decade.
It would have saved a lot of American lives, and probably spared an enormous amount of suffering among those who got hit and seriously injured but didn't die (thus not adding to the statistics). Or do you think a little suffering is good for the soul? At least it's character-building, or so they say.
At least one war-criminal has been dealt with. Now it's time to clean out your house. Can we please see Bush dangling from a tree?
That's pretty good progress, but since the annual body count still exceeds the events of that one day, just not good enough.
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Could have been better, yes I agree. But obviously, many Americans seems to disagree since they'd rather see American soldiers killing infidel Muslims.
Originally posted by Kil
you do know that bin Laden killed more Muslims than he did Americans, right? |
Yeah, but a some Muslims in some backward country on the other side of the world doesn't count, does it? They all look alike anyway...
All Americans out in the street dancing and cheering to the news of Bin Ladin's death seems to think so anyway.
It all seems so obscene to me. The dancing in the streets on 9/11 and now. Just two sides of the same coin. Same God, different name.
| Also, drunk driving is against the law. |
So is invading other countries without just cause, but that didn't stop Bush to go ahead, so what's the difference?
But you should all rejoice in the fact that Obama scored a major political victory in this. Maybe he'll get the support he needs to close that disgrace in Guantanamo. You're brewing new terrorists in that camp, you realise that don't you. Everyone that didn't feel a deep resentment against USA going in there sure as hell will have it leaving...
You might as well put all of them before the firing squad, because you can never be sure when they turn against you. Like pulling the aching tooth, the pain will be intense but will subside and be forgotten too soon enough.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 12:25:30 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by H. Humbert
I'm not going to get all mushy and sentimental over Osama or pretend that he should be mourned. He was a murderer with blood on his hands. He deserved death. But I don't get why the media is telling us we should be feeling celebratory. Killing a man is still grim business. I can remember after 9-11 seeing savages in other countries cheer the carnage and dance in the streets with gleeful bloodlust. It sickened me to see a culture that could celebrate mass murder, and it sickens me no less to see it in the streets of my own country now. This isn't a game or a sporting match. I don't feel like anything was "won" today. I think our country has already lost too damn much over these wars already. We should all mourn the fact that we must live in a world where such things are necessary.
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Well said. That is almost exactly what I was going to post.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 14:08:25 [Permalink]
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I don’t see much reason to celebrate and it is amusing to watch those who think they do. Odd, is it not, that the screamiest of the celebrants are mostly those who were and have been mere spectators, uninvolved in any way.
I am further amused that the douche Bush, who set the whole thing in motion by ignoring some pretty timely warnings, is being all but fetid feted by a crowd of desperate idiots who put flowers in front of his Dallas den.
And I guffaw at the scrambling, Republican politicians who got caught off guard. You’ve been snookered, bitches! 
But beyond that, well, I’ll raise a glass of the good stuff to those who planned and carried out the raid. I might not agree with the means -- assassination is always ugly -- but the end was most satisfactory. Again, Well Done!
Hell, I might go apeshit with excitement and heist another glass tomorrow.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist!
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Fripp
SFN Regular
USA
727 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 15:38:24 [Permalink]
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Well for fuck's sake people, I for one am frickin' ecstatic that that shithead is dead. The pious hypocrite attacked us, purposely killed thousands of innocent people all in the name is his twisted view of his religion.
I know many of you are going to argue that the US has done the same and I understand that viewpoint, though I don't agree with it. I'm not interested in debating these arguments because my point is that I'm glad the bastard is dead. And, yes, I would be celebrating in the streets.
And though I can't justify it on any moral grounds, yes I would like to see his head on a stick. Would it accomplish anything? Probably not. But when they perform acts of such vile brutality such as behead people savagely on video, treating them in a civilized manner won't sink the message in. These people are so blinded by their own fanaticism that the only way to get their attention to be as ruthless in return.
Would it be nice if wars and terrorism and senseless violence were eradicated? Of course, but I live in the real world.
Just my two cents. Feel free to blast me for my gut emotion. |
"What the hell is an Aluminum Falcon?"
"Oh, I'm sorry. I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a small thermal exhaust port that's only 2-meters wide! That thing wasn't even fully paid off yet! You have any idea what this is going to do to my credit?!?!"
"What? Oh, oh, 'just rebuild it'? Oh, real [bleep]ing original. And who's gonna give me a loan, jackhole? You? You got an ATM on that torso LiteBrite?" |
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moakley
SFN Regular
USA
1888 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2011 : 16:02:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
G. W. Bush sent as many soldiers (as killed in 9/11) to their deaths in Iraq (not counting the hundred+ times more of Iraqis because of that invasion). ...
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I'm in agreement with things said about Iraq. That was a war of choice based on either, bad intelligence or fabricated intelligence. Effectively marketed to the US. Hell, I've even considered whether not getting Bin Laden for 7 years was part of some kind of cynical political strategy by the prior administration. He was the biggest boogeyman of the last decade. |
Life is good
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. -Anonymous |
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Osama bin Laden has been killed
