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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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ThorGoLucky
Snuggle Wolf
USA
1487 Posts |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
 Posted - 10/21/2011 : 15:55:39 [Permalink]
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The pizza analogy just complicates Cains simple 9-9-9 tax plan. Cain is not for any free lunch or pizza. He is using his experiences as a 8th place national pizza company CEO to demonstrate Americans have a choice. You pay the pizza man the money and he will take care of the tax. It will be cheaper if you are willing to accept used/presold pizza because the sales tax will not apply.
Cains is the only candidate who has national appeal because he is not selling an America obsessed with global superpowerdom. But a vision of America he is comfortable delivering door to door. 30 minutes or it is free. Which candidate has challenged that delivery. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 06:19:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
I though the 10th amendment already addressed the issue. |
And I explained that it doesn't address it, since the Constitution explicitly gives the power of taxation to Congress. Nowhere does that document say, "except for sales taxes."| Today only states are collecting sales tax. |
Irrelevant.| To have the federal government also add on top of the sates sales tax another sales tax will require state approval. |
False.| There is duplication on taxes as well as infringement of state powers. |
Most people's money is already taxed a couple of times. Creating a new tax isn't an infringement of state powers because the Constitution specifically says that Congress has the power to tax.| This has already been demonstrated in the internet purchasing activity where states that export to other states do not levy a sales tax....the federal government sought to impost or change existing rules only to have to squashed by the supreme court. |
No, you've got that all wrong, too. The Constitution also gives Congress the power to regulate interstate commerce, and that includes the power to regulate interstate sales taxation. Since the rise of catalog and Internet shopping, many states have tried to get out-of-state businesses to collect their sales taxes for them, but the Feds have said "no" (unless the business has a brick-and-mortar presence in the other state) and the courts agreed.
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Here is Professor Kevin Gutzman's interview. Cain's 9-9-9 Plan IS Unconstitutional, Besides, "Who Is This Fellow?"
Listen to the interview. http://mikechurch.com/Public-Transcripts/kevin-gutzman-interview-on-constitutionality-of-9-9-9.html
Cain's '9-9-9' tax reform plan is unconstitutional
By: Ken Klukowski | 10/13/11 8:05 PM
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/2011/10/cains-9-9-9-tax-reform-plan-unconstitutional#ixzz1bhgfOF7h
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 07:16:37 [Permalink]
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He's wrong. Article I, section 8 of the Constitution does not mention income taxes, yet Gutzman says that the Constitution specifically gives Congress the power to collect them. Article I, section 8 is as broad as possible: "The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes..." It doesn't specify what kind of taxes, so we can assume the Founders meant "any kind."This guy apparently doesn't know that the plan already excluded states and businesses from taxing each other.
But it doesn't matter. As I already asked you, why bother with these crappy arguments when there are better arguments against the 9-9-9 plan to be made? Are those too sophisticated for you, and so you need to fall back on more black-and-white (but wrong) issues? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 10:10:24 [Permalink]
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Kevin packs quite a resume. I would take him over some journalist blog.
Kevin R. C. Gutzman is the New York Times best-selling author of three books. A constitutional scholar as well.
Professor of history at Western Connecticut State University, Gutzman holds a bachelor's degree, a master of public affairs degree, and a law degree from the University of Texas at Austin, as well as an MA and a PhD in American history from the University of Virginia.
Happy to be a former attorney, Gutzman devotes his intellectual energy to teaching courses in the Revolutionary and constitutional history of the United States, to writing books and articles in these fields, and to public speaking on related topics. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 10:16:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Kevin packs quite a resume. |
Doesn't matter what his resume looks like: if he makes obviously wrong statements about the Constitution, then he's obviously wrong. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:36:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
Kevin packs quite a resume. |
Doesn't matter what his resume looks like: if he makes obviously wrong statements about the Constitution, then he's obviously wrong.
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I pointed to a constitutional scholar Kevin with some very distinguished achievements. You have to do better than that to meet the standards I set. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:42:49 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
I pointed to a constitutional scholar Kevin with some very distinguished achievements. |
Except that he's wrong about Congress' power to tax. There are only four sentences in the whole Constitution about taxes, and he got the second one wrong.| You have to do better than that to meet the standards I set. |
Oh, you're still stuck on your fallacious standards? Okay, fine: since you aren't a university dean, you obviously lack the knowledge to judge whether someone's academic achievements are "distinguished" or not. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 11:49:51 [Permalink]
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| So you look at his academic qualification. No degree not a doctor. My source Kevin is listed as a constitutional scholar. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 12:09:22 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
So you look at his academic qualification. No degree not a doctor. My source Kevin is listed as a constitutional scholar. |
But you're unqualified to judge whether he's a good constitutional scholar. And the proof that you're unqualified to make such a judgment is that you refuse to address the fact that he is wrong about what the Constitution says about taxation. Your inadequacy is demonstrated by your faith in Gutzman's qualifications and your inability to double-check what he says, and not by your own lack of qualifications. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 12:34:27 [Permalink]
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| Can you provide a constitutional scholar of Kevin's caliber to refute the interview Kevin provided. Let the experts trash it out. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 12:39:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by justintime
Can you provide a constitutional scholar of Kevin's caliber to refute the interview Kevin provided. Let the experts trash it out. |
Why do you need an expert when there are only four sentences about taxation in the whole Constitution? Can you not read the document and see for yourself that Gutzman is plainly wrong?
Hell, you're Canadian. Why do you even care? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 10/24/2011 : 13:22:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by justintime
Can you provide a constitutional scholar of Kevin's caliber to refute the interview Kevin provided. Let the experts trash it out. |
Why do you need an expert when there are only four sentences about taxation in the whole Constitution? Can you not read the document and see for yourself that Gutzman is plainly wrong?
Hell, you're Canadian. Why do you even care?
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We do have members here who are Canadian and aren't like this.
I have to question..... justin shows up after mabus gets treatment. Coinky-dink? Probably, but it is interesting. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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The next black president?
