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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:10:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Survival of the fittest has never meant survival of the strongest. |
It hasn't? |
Only if brute strength enhances survivability. An antelope built for strength would probably be a lot slower than one built for speed.
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I was contesting the "never" part.
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Survival of the fittest has never meant survival of the strongest. What fittest means is that there are survival strategies that work better than other strategies in a given niche. One of these strategies might be strength, but describing what that the strategy might be isn't what is meant by "fittest." |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:22:18 [Permalink]
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Bill:
Actually it's an example of media giving the people what they want or marketing what sells. |
Yeah. The construct feeds on itself. Especially when the target audience is young white males who have unwittingly bought into the construct. And yeah. The studio wants to make money. It's cultural feedback. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Bill scott
SFN Addict
USA
2103 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:23:46 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Originally posted by Bill scott
Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Bill scott
| Survival of the fittest has never meant survival of the strongest. |
It hasn't? |
Only if brute strength enhances survivability. An antelope built for strength would probably be a lot slower than one built for speed.
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I was contesting the "never" part.
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Survival of the fittest has never meant survival of the strongest. What fittest means is that there are survival strategies that work better than other strategies in a given niche. One of these strategies might be strength, but describing what that the strategy might be isn't what is meant by "fittest."
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| "One of these strategies might be strength" |
And that is why I contested the "never" part. |
"Lets get one thing clear, Bill. Science does make some assumptions." -perrodetokio-
"In the end as skeptics we must realize that there is no real knowledge, there is only what is most reasonable to believe." -Coelacanth-
The fact that humans do science is what causes errors in science. -Dave W.-
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 08:32:33 [Permalink]
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Bill:
And that is why I contested the "never" part. |
I give up... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 12:50:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
Survival of the fittest has never meant survival of the strongest. |
Originally posted by Bill Scott
It hasn't?
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It is pretty obvious (at least to someone who knows some very basic stuff about evolution) that Kil was saying that "fit" and "strong" are not synonymous in the context of natural selection. |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Ebone4rock
SFN Regular
USA
894 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 13:14:54 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by filthy
Originally posted by Ebone4rock
" Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder"
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Good one! Now it's back to back to lurking....
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Filthy,
Haven't you learned yet not to encourage me?
" Beer: Helping ugly people procreate since 3000 B.C.E."
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Haole with heart, thats all I'll ever be. I'm not a part of the North Shore society. Stuck on the shoulder, that's where you'll find me. Digging for scraps with the kooks in line. -Offspring |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2011 : 13:46:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Bill scott
Again, what this guy is saying is that most men prefer a women with feminine curves over one with masculine curves. That is not even debatable. He then goes on to point out that more black women seem to have athletic masculine builds then do women of other races. That is also non-debatable. |
But his article is full of shit. Apparently so much so that even Psychology Today pulled his article, which is a blog not a science paper. You shouldn't take his word for it, given what happened to it.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 05/20/2011 13:49:44 |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2011 : 07:03:16 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by alienist
In all seriousness, you have made quite a few fallacies:
<snip>
2. you take Kanazawa seriously. If you look at his other writings, it is clear he is a racist
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Actually, this is an Ad. Hominem. Just because he is racist does not necessarily mean that his report is junk. It needs to be evaluated in its own merit, unless you can point to his previous writings as disqualifying him as an expert in the field.
Also, this is the voice of a single evolutionary psychologist (not a science community with consensus), who was blogging! It wasn't a peer-reviewed report, it wasn't even submitted for peer-review as far as I can tell. Which means that it's mostly his opinion more than anything else. It might contain some truths in it, but since it wasn't put to peer-review, other psychologists haven't had any say in the scientific rigour of the article.
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Actually, it isn't an ad hom. If you look at his other writings and conclude he is racist, then it can't be ad hom to dismiss his opinion of black women. You practically make the case yourself for why it isn't ad hom when you say (correctly so) that the article is opinion.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2011 : 13:54:14 [Permalink]
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I stand corrected.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2011 : 21:09:26 [Permalink]
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| Kil answered Bill's question about why we don't generally select for bigger, stronger women pretty well on page one, but I'll add my two cents anyway. I wish I could find the source now, but I remember reading a paper in college about how even though it seems as if humans have been getting larger over time (such as when we look at the tiny armour of Medieval knights that looks like it was made for older children), but that has just been because of improvements in nutrition, and in fact there is evidence that since the dawn of civilization humans have been getting smaller. There's a lot of evidence now that in the last ten thousand years human evolution has excellerated because of the changes in our environment that civilization has brought. (There's a good book with lots of specific examples called "The 10,000 Year Explosion" by Gregory Cochran and Henry Harpending. So for all we know, bigger stronger women might have had a selective advantage previous to more modern changes in how humans live and organize ourselves. But once civilization sets in, there are just way too many other kinds of advantages (wealth, prestige, the charm to attract many allies, etc.) that can trump just being bigger and stronger. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2011 : 21:30:07 [Permalink]
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So did he ever say how he objectively measured attractiveness? The closest thing I can find to an answer is in the Wikipedia article on Sotoshi Kanazawa saying: | 4] This article was based on the opinions reported by survey takers in the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health ("Add Health"), which Kanazawa claimed could be used as "objective" measures of attractiveness. |
"Add Health" is (according to their website) | The National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health (Add Health) is a longitudinal study of a nationally representative sample of adolescents in grades 7-12 in the United States during the 1994-95 school year. The Add Health cohort has been followed into young adulthood with four in-home interviews, the most recent in 2008, when the sample was aged 24-32. Add Health combines longitudinal survey data on respondents’ social, economic, psychological and physical well-being with contextual data on the family, neighborhood, community, school, friendships, peer groups, and romantic relationships, providing unique opportunities to study how social environments and behaviors in adolescence are linked to health and achievement outcomes in young adulthood. |
So I'm confused as to how Kanazawa believes he can discount the influence of culture, especially since the sampling was only done in the United States. That combined with the fact that he phrased his article saying "black woman are unattractive" rather than "black women are perceived as less attractive" and that he takes particular issue with political correctness makes me think he enjoys stirring up shit more than he wants to effectively communicate challenging ideas. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 05/29/2011 : 21:14:05 [Permalink]
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I am totally shocked that I find myself posting on this topic but I find I must, now. It took some effort on my part to stay out until now because, being aware of what emotions that were set ablaze by bill's opening salvos, I realized it was best to allow more qualified posters to participate in my absence. Knowing how my emotions might over take me and with what was voiced by others, it was a good move. My views were voiced by others and adequately so.
With pleasure I can report, Psychology Today Apologizes for article.
It seems Psychology Today has learned a valuable lesson by retracting that trash so quickly. Learned for "The Lancet" which took a deplorable 12 years to admit to their mistake, which produced damaging effects that are increasing to today. Yes, the consequences are still growing. My heart goes out to the parent that have lost infants and children from their misguided decision not to have their children vaccinated, contrary to main stream doctors advice, both in the past and yet to come. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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filthy
SFN Die Hard
USA
14408 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2011 : 03:50:48 [Permalink]
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A fool there was and he made his prayer
(Even as you and I!)
To a rag and a bone and a hank of hair
(We called her the woman who did not care)
But the fool he called her his lady fair
(Even as you and I!) ~~ Rudyard Kipling
All in the eye of the beholder, eh? Of the tennis ladies, I liked Martina Navratilova. She could be on the court scrambling and about to fall flat on her face, and still manage to bring it off with grace and even style.
When my ship was dry-docked for 6 months in San Juan, PR, I was happily dating a tiny, mostly black, hotel receptionist. This was, of course, well before I met the hell-hath-no-fury that I eventually married. That one was tall and neatly proportioned without carrying too much adipose flesh, and Italian.
Oh, and I also lived for a few years with a lady who was about as Caucasian as it gets.
Remembering back, I’ve been involved with quite a few women of varying sizes and hues. If I wasn’t so old and beat-up and ugly, I’d probably be involved with more.
Why regulate your appetite to a certain type of dish when there is a whole smorgasbord out there. Y’see, it’s not the rag, the bone and the hank that’s important, but what’s supporting it.
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"What luck for rulers that men do not think." -- Adolf Hitler (1889 - 1945)
"If only we could impeach on the basis of criminal stupidity, 90% of the Rethuglicans and half of the Democrats would be thrown out of office." ~~ P.Z. Myres
"The default position of human nature is to punch the other guy in the face and take his stuff." ~~ Dude
Brother Boot Knife of Warm Humanitarianism,
and Crypto-Communist! 
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justintime
BANNED
382 Posts |
Posted - 09/23/2011 : 17:00:53 [Permalink]
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The high emphasis on physical attributes to measure attractiveness is quite limiting. After all beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.
But look at the facts. White men had no problems banging their black women slaves. So physical, cultural, economic barriers were not factors that influenced attraction.
Most black men end up getting black women to have their babies so they are copulating and finding them attractive.
There are more white men who turn gay which suggest they would rather bang guys than the less attractive white women or for other reasons beyond the scope of this discussion. But the math suggest more black women get banged than white women and the percentage of women who turn to their own sex for gratification are white which can only support the equation they are being ignored.
Sure most black men would like to service those neglected white women but statistics show the percentage is very low. Why? It is all about expectations. The white women expect to remain desirable even after they are stretched beyond recognition. |
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An evolutionary psychologist said
