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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
 Posted - 05/25/2011 : 10:49:08 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Baxter
Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
My point to Baxter was that he's assuming that being anti-theist and anti-Christian (far from all SFN-members are) would trump our desire find the truth value of claims by examining the evidence as they are and as they are given by experts. I find that offensive. |
I assume that people who are hostile to Christianity are more likely to accept beliefs that are hostile to Christianity.
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Yes, but we aren't talking about belifs. We are talking about scholary works, and evidence. At least I think that evidence is more important than beliefs.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 10:58:52 [Permalink]
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Kil wrote: | Maybe we should decide this in a caged death match? I mean Jeez! Can you guys settle down until we go over the rules and come to some kind of an agreement? At that point the debate will be moderated and we SFN will hold everyone to the rules of engagement. |
Oooh, yeah, love it when you take charge! ;-) I really can't wait for the REAL review of evidence and debate to begin. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Hercules
New Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 11:54:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by changingmyself
[quote]
Plus, the fact that kingdavid is already at it again doing exactly what I've been warning about and people here are missing it already. Kingdavid is trying to control what is or isn't credible while he has absolutely no qualifications whatsoever to make any such determination. He's trying to corner teched246 and CMS into accepting only sources that KD will allow and it's based on the credentialism fallacy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credentialism [quote]
This was what I was attempting to get at when I posted my previous post Hercules. I agree, that is what he is attempting to do and that was exactly what I was trying to get away from when I agreed to this. You saw what I posted repeatedly on the Zeitgeist video, you were there, what did I say about kingdavids challenge?
When I said I accepted "this" challenge, I wasn't referring to bow down to "his" challenge because as anyone can go see on his page, he doesn't use the actual stories or higher scholars to disprove this evidence at all. So he is asking for more than what he was willing to give. |
That's right, changingmyself. I feel that you & teched246 are onto kingdavid and his dishonest tactics. It's the others here that don't have the experience in dealing with kingdavid I worry about. However, I feel that they will catch on but, I'd prefer sooner rather than later. |
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 12:28:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by changingmyself
Are you missing the point on purpose david?
If two scholars who work at universities disagree, one saying Jesus is a myth and the other saying that he was a real person, who are you going to believe when they contradict each other? It is a simple question, why can't you answer it? |
I don't automatically believe with what any scholar says. But, having already looked at the evidence, I'm more than convinced that Jesus existed at the very least. Not because some scholar said it, but because I find the evidence for His existence convincing.
"Out of curiosity, why are you so interested in me changing the terms of the challenge?"
Because despite what you think, you made the agreement with me, so I would be interested. I thought that would be common sense. |
I never agreed to accept scholars who were less than university-level.
P.S. You broke our agreement as soon as you replied to the evidence which as you have plainly written out in your first post that you agreed not to reply to. |
Obviously, we disagreed on what was meant, which is why we need to start over. I thought we meant that I couldn't directly address your evidence, and you seemed to think it meant that I couldn't reply at all. But since we're starting the whole thing over, what was done before doesn't matter.
You also stated that the people on this forum would decide if it was valid or not. To me, this shows that you do not trust their judgment. You conceded when you broke the agreement.
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I do trust their judgment, but you knew going into this what types of evidence my challenge required. They will decide if your evidence meets the requirements of my challenge. The reason you wanted it done here was so that I couldn't move my goalposts, so let's agree to keep them where they are. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 12:29:47 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Hercules
Plus, the fact that kingdavid is already at it again doing exactly what I've been warning about and people here are missing it already. |
And you are jumping the gun assuming that because I haven't said much about it, I'm not aware of it. Do you have premature ejaculations every time you don't get acknowledgement?
But, you're not alone as Dr. Mabuse has also dropped the ball as kingdavid does exactly what I've been warning about right under your noses. |
Since everyone except you agreed to a Mulligan, you're the one ranting to an absent audience. You don't know what the new rules will be yet.
| Instead of insulting me for being FACTUAL you should just pay attention and you'll eventually catch-on. Step off the "turnip truck." |
You're getting tit-for-tat and you seem to enjoy it, since you're asking for more.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 13:44:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by KingDavid8
Originally posted by changingmyself
Then that in itself blows the whole "scholars who work at universities" out of the water. If one highest university scholar says Jesus is a myth and the other says that Jesus is real, do we go on which one is the highest scholar or do we break out their GPA and compare grades?
Who gets to decide who is the highest scholar? |
It doesn't matter. If you can find me a scholar who works for a university who agrees with one (or more) of Zeitgeist's claims, then I will take this as evidence for the claim. It doesn't matter if another university-level scholar disagrees. This isn't about who's got the better scholar, but about whether any university-level scholars agree with this stuff at all.
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I have and have listed their work in the evidence forum. I do not see you rushing over to fix your mistakes on your forum, have you? |
"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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| Edited by - changingmyself on 05/25/2011 13:46:19 |
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KingDavid8
Skeptic Friend
USA
212 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 14:49:41 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by changingmyself
Originally posted by KingDavid8
If you can find me a scholar who works for a university who agrees with one (or more) of Zeitgeist's claims, then I will take this as evidence for the claim. It doesn't matter if another university-level scholar disagrees. This isn't about who's got the better scholar, but about whether any university-level scholars agree with this stuff at all.
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I have and have listed their work in the evidence forum. I do not see you rushing over to fix your mistakes on your forum, have you?
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Feel free to include it in the debate. |
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 15:53:38 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by KingDavid8
Originally posted by changingmyself
Originally posted by KingDavid8
If you can find me a scholar who works for a university who agrees with one (or more) of Zeitgeist's claims, then I will take this as evidence for the claim. It doesn't matter if another university-level scholar disagrees. This isn't about who's got the better scholar, but about whether any university-level scholars agree with this stuff at all.
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I have and have listed their work in the evidence forum. I do not see you rushing over to fix your mistakes on your forum, have you?
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Feel free to include it in the debate.
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And feel free to actually look at the evidence that I have posted and correct your webpage accordingly. |
"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 18:00:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by changingmyself
Hello everyone, my name is Changingmyself aka Tina IRL. I accepted this challenge not to get the money but to prove that there are primary sources for these claims which kingdavid has dismissed and that scholars on a whole do agree with the Zeitgeist claim. I am in no way, shape or form saying that I "believe" that this information is any more REAL than that of Jesus, but that these were the beliefs of the followers of these religions. All of this information can be seen on either google books or webpages written by scholars...but on the most part the primary sources as in the Egyptian Pyramid Texts, Book of the Dead, Book of Gates, Funeral Stele's or those that have read the hieroglyphs and translated them. I am going to attempt to list the claims as david listed them on each page while I might have to go back and add to the page because my notes are in shambles right now. This was decided only two days ago so I have been gathering as much as I can with the assistance of one other person.
All that I ask you to do is copy David's main page and then vote Yes or NO after each of the claims if I have proven them or not proven them like this:
Horus
1. Born on Dec 25th Yes
2. Born of a virgin No
3. Star in the East Yes
4. Adored by 3 kings Yes
5. Teacher at 12 Yes
and so on through all of the list.
We appreciate your assistance very much. I ask that only skeptics/atheists vote on this for the vote needs to be impartial.
I have also asked David to link his webpage to this so that the people that see it can decide for themselves.
If david agrees, I would like to only leave this vote up for a two week time span. That means that on Friday June 3rd, the votes will be tallied.
Also, I ask that only those that sign up before 5/19/11 be allowed to vote so as no "padding" of the votes will be allowed from either side.
Thank you very much for your assistance by voting on this! 
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Only skeptics/atheists?
Would you accept skeptics/Wiccans? |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Hercules
New Member
35 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2011 : 18:52:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Hercules
Plus, the fact that kingdavid is already at it again doing exactly what I've been warning about and people here are missing it already. |
And you are jumping the gun assuming that because I haven't said much about it, I'm not aware of it. Do you have premature ejaculations every time you don't get acknowledgement?
| But, you're not alone as Dr. Mabuse has also dropped the ball as kingdavid does exactly what I've been warning about right under your noses. |
Since everyone except you agreed to a Mulligan, you're the one ranting to an absent audience. You don't know what the new rules will be yet.
| Instead of insulting me for being FACTUAL you should just pay attention and you'll eventually catch-on. Step off the "turnip truck." |
You're getting tit-for-tat and you seem to enjoy it, since you're asking for more. |
Dr. Mabuse, You obviously have nothing to offer here beyond flaming & trolling so, now I know to ignore you.  |
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changingmyself
Skeptic Friend
USA
122 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2011 : 04:20:33 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
Originally posted by changingmyself
Hello everyone, my name is Changingmyself aka Tina IRL. I accepted this challenge not to get the money but to prove that there are primary sources for these claims which kingdavid has dismissed and that scholars on a whole do agree with the Zeitgeist claim. I am in no way, shape or form saying that I "believe" that this information is any more REAL than that of Jesus, but that these were the beliefs of the followers of these religions. All of this information can be seen on either google books or webpages written by scholars...but on the most part the primary sources as in the Egyptian Pyramid Texts, Book of the Dead, Book of Gates, Funeral Stele's or those that have read the hieroglyphs and translated them. I am going to attempt to list the claims as david listed them on each page while I might have to go back and add to the page because my notes are in shambles right now. This was decided only two days ago so I have been gathering as much as I can with the assistance of one other person.
All that I ask you to do is copy David's main page and then vote Yes or NO after each of the claims if I have proven them or not proven them like this:
Horus
1. Born on Dec 25th Yes
2. Born of a virgin No
3. Star in the East Yes
4. Adored by 3 kings Yes
5. Teacher at 12 Yes
and so on through all of the list.
We appreciate your assistance very much. I ask that only skeptics/atheists vote on this for the vote needs to be impartial.
I have also asked David to link his webpage to this so that the people that see it can decide for themselves.
If david agrees, I would like to only leave this vote up for a two week time span. That means that on Friday June 3rd, the votes will be tallied.
Also, I ask that only those that sign up before 5/19/11 be allowed to vote so as no "padding" of the votes will be allowed from either side.
Thank you very much for your assistance by voting on this!
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Only skeptics/atheists?
Would you accept skeptics/Wiccans?
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Yes, I would. Thank you! |
"The gospels are not eyewitness accounts"
-Allen D. Callahan, Associate Professor of New Testament, Harvard Divinity School
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 06/08/2011 : 16:38:38 [Permalink]
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So is this "debate" ever going to happen?
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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sugarino
New Member
33 Posts |
Posted - 09/10/2011 : 21:27:00 [Permalink]
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| Well I see this is never going to happen. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 09/11/2011 : 14:51:14 [Permalink]
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| That's about as disappointing as not finding out which one of ten super hero's would win in a cage fight. At least for me, I know others we're into it. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Evidence for Zeitgeist’s claims?
