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Hal
Skeptic Friend
USA
302 Posts |
 Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:16:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dude, I about can't find the posting but a few pages ago you wrote about epistemological/metaphysical reasons to determine reality outside your head. That is the stuff philosophy professors make a living
from shifting piles of it from one side of the barn to the other. Metaphysics has nothing to do with real physics or reality in the real world.
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That was my comment about epistemology/metaphysics, and yes, I was trolling a bit, because I guessed, correctly, as it turns out, that you would have no idea what metaphysics is, as an academic field of study.
Now run off and fetch a dictionary definition that proves whatever the hell your point is. |
Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.
Martin Luther King Jr.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:19:00 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
I am heading up to the Bruce Peninsula with my resident love goddess. |
Video or it didn't happen. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 19:41:25 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Dude, I about can't find the posting but a few pages ago you wrote about epistemological/metaphysical reasons to determine reality outside your head. That is the stuff philosophy professors make a living
from shifting piles of it from one side of the barn to the other. Metaphysics has nothing to do with real physics or reality in the real world.
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Bullshit. It doesn't get more real than being able to tell what is real and what isn't.
You can't provide a test to determine if anything is real, if it exists outside your head, and because of that you must admit you are agnostic.
You won't do it because you will have to change your position, and your faith won't allow you.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2011 : 20:05:58 [Permalink]
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| He's so nuts! I feel guilty just reading this thread because I know I'm only doing so for the entertainment value. It's like watching infotainment news. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 02:31:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
Kil, Look at what you said on page 17. With you pinhead agnostics everyone must be agnostic. I've even had some of you tell me I am not an atheist.
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So dispite our efforts to explain to you that most of us are atheists, you are still convinced that we're theists, just because we are agnostics?
Seems like we're back to square one and all we got to show for it is a lot of verbal abuse from Officiant.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 07:02:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Officiant
Kil, Look at what you said on page 17. With you pinhead agnostics everyone must be agnostic. I've even had some of you tell me I am not an atheist.
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So dispite our efforts to explain to you that most of us are atheists, you are still convinced that we're theists, just because we are agnostics?
Seems like we're back to square one and all we got to show for it is a lot of verbal abuse from Officiant.
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No kidding.
Only a few of the regulars here call themselves theists, and all of the agnostic atheists here reject all claims that involve the supernatural. Some of us even take a pretty hard line stance on that stuff. I have often referred to "supernatural" as a word that means nothing, because all real things exist in the natural world.
None of the agnostic atheists here think there is any chance Jesus, Thor, odin, Allah, the christian god, Zeus, or quetzelquatl are real things.
Most of us also, through our understanding of various theories of epistemology, recognize that we must never take an absolute stance when it comes to very general claims. Doubt is appropriate when examining our own beliefs, certainty is almost always a bas idea. It's ok to be certain of some things, like I'm certain I never want to be shot or set on fire. But when it comes to things like saying there is no omnipotent creator, my answer must be a "probably not, there is no evidence to support such a claim". It's a very strong probably not, and it in no way implies I believe the claim, but unless I can devise a test to clear the matter up, there has to be uncertainty in my answer.
In addition, I strongly reject the claim on the grounds it is unevidenced and untestable, but I must remain open to the possibility of those things changing in the future. Again, this does not in any way mean I believe the claim true, or even might be true.
Certainty is arrogance, and that shit is ugly no matter the source.
Officiant, you have to recognize that your entire world view is resting on unfounded assumptions. The same is true for us all, and anyone who asserts claims like yours (or the opposite) with your degree of certainty is a person of faith. There are an infinite number of things you can't know, and as a result the only rational position, the default position, is one of agnosticism.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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| Edited by - Dude on 09/04/2011 07:04:35 |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 10:44:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Officiant
Kil, Look at what you said on page 17. With you pinhead agnostics everyone must be agnostic. I've even had some of you tell me I am not an atheist.
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So dispite our efforts to explain to you that most of us are atheists, you are still convinced that we're theists, just because we are agnostics?
Seems like we're back to square one and all we got to show for it is a lot of verbal abuse from Officiant.
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We never left square one with Officiant. His prejudice against a single word that he doesn't understand (even though he thinks he does, with a vengeance) and lacking the ability to absorbe new information which is in conflict with what he thinks he knows, and we might as well be arguing with a wall. And that's something I'm only willing to do for lurkers. As far as learning what it means to be agnostic about things, and that atheism and agnosticism are not mutually exclusive positions, that mission was accomplished early on in this thread.
By the way... I think it's far more likely for a person like Officiant to actually turn to religion than it is for any agnostic/atheist. That's because he has already accepted the premis that religious faith is built upon. Using Dawkins scale, a 1 and a 7 are pretty much the same thing. They are flip sides of the same coin. The faith coin. |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 12:56:02 [Permalink]
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| Years ago I went to an atheist Meetup in Philly and met a woman who obviously identified as an atheist. We were chatting, and I mentioned that I sometimes attend meetings of PhACT (Philadelphia Association for Critical Thinking.) I told her it was a skeptic organization. To my surprise, she developed a sort of sour expression on her face and said to me "I could never be a skeptic. Nothing can make me not an atheist. I think even if Jesus and all the saints came down to earth, I still wouldn't believe in them." I was so flabbergasted, I didn't know what to say in response. That was my first exposure to I guess what could be called faith-based atheism. I'm still amazed that anyone ascribes to such a worldview, since for me and for most atheists I know, atheism was the result of skepticism. I'm glad there aren't a lot of faith-based theists out there. Hope there never will be. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 13:06:50 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
The militant Imams are looking for a foot in the door to establish Sharia Law.
Who would vote for this? An agnostic school board member thinks this cowardly appeasement is alright because agnosticism is the most scientific and accurate view of religion. |
I don't believe you. At least, provide a link to a credible source. I want a second opinion.
When we don't all obey the same laws it is the end of civilization. Agnostic Huxley supported the Holy Bible, the word of God, to be read in English schools. |
He obeyed the same laws as (almost) everybody else in his country.
| Agnostics want religion proselytized in school. |
Bald-faced lie.
H.Humbert (from page 3)...ongoing debates between the new atheists and the accommodationists (people who many feel prop up the privilege of religion at the expense of reason and honesty).
... those atheists who are nonetheless soft on faith (i.e., atheist accommodationists). You know them — the kind of people, like Michael Ruse, who say, “I am an atheist, but . . .”. In other words, the folks who, says Daniel Dennett, have “belief in belief.” Aren't agnostics soft on faith marfknox?
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You're barely coherent here. Can you please rephrase this in a more coherent fasion.
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Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 13:07:51 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Officiant
I've even had some of you tell me I am not an atheist.
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You are mistaken. |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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podcat
Skeptic Friend
435 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2011 : 22:22:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
He's so nuts! I feel guilty just reading this thread because I know I'm only doing so for the entertainment value. It's like watching infotainment news.
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You mean FOX News? |
“In a modern...society, everybody has the absolute right to believe whatever they damn well please, but they don't have the same right to be taken seriously”.
-Barry Williams, co-founder, Australian Skeptics |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 17:54:07 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Officiant
I am heading up to the Bruce Peninsula with my resident love goddess. |
Video or it didn't happen.
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I look forward to the humor value of his Violent Torpedo of Truth tour. |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
| Edited by - Valiant Dancer on 09/05/2011 17:55:46 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2011 : 19:26:31 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Valiant Dancer
I look forward to the humor value of his Violent Torpedo of Truth tour. |
Charlie Sheen? Visiting our little corner of the web? That idea gives me chills. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Officiant
Skeptic Friend
166 Posts |
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Valiant Dancer
Forum Goalie
USA
4826 Posts |
Posted - 09/08/2011 : 09:48:19 [Permalink]
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Jesus Christ!!!!!
He's the Atheist version of Dennis Markuze!!!!!! |
Cthulhu/Asmodeus when you're tired of voting for the lesser of two evils
Brother Cutlass of Reasoned Discussion |
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Cowardly Agnostics
Topic Locked
