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Machi4velli
SFN Regular
USA
854 Posts |
 Posted - 09/16/2011 : 14:26:02 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by marfknox
| Suppose I just create things and call them art so that I don't have to work 40 hours a week? |
What? Jesus, read what I friggin' wrote! Where the hell did I say that because someone declares themselves to be an artist that they don't have to work while other people do have to work? |
"I envision a future where artists of all stripes can work, say, 20 hours a week and earn enough to make a living wage, and then can devote time to a full or part time career in the arts."
I took this as you suggesting to limit this opportunity to artists. No need to take offense.
| And if all basic necessities such as housing, food, and health care are provided for as a given, that would mean non-professional workers could afford to work significantly less hours, and what income they earn could be used for the things that actually make life meaningful and enjoyable. |
Do you think enough people would volunteer to work less if these things were covered? |
"Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people."
-Giordano Bruno
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, but the illusion of knowledge."
-Stephen Hawking
"Seeking what is true is not seeking what is desirable"
-Albert Camus |
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2011 : 15:43:44 [Permalink]
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Machi4velli wrote: | I took this as you suggesting to limit this opportunity to artists. No need to take offense. |
I'm sorry. I was very annoyed at other people for jumping to absurd extremes based on things I said and I took it out on you.
I thought I'd made it clear that the suggestion of a much shorter work week was for all working non-professional jobs, not just artists. That is indeed what I meant. Factory workers, janitors, sales clerks, stuff like that.
| Do you think enough people would volunteer to work less if these things were covered? |
Would people choose to work a menial job only 20-25 hours a week instead of 40 if they and their family's housing, food, health care, and education were already covered? Without a doubt. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2011 : 15:49:50 [Permalink]
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| Do you think enough people would volunteer to work less if these things were covered? |
I should probably elaborate on this more. Menial jobs pay shit. So unless that changes, the compensation a person would earn in another 15-20 hours a week is probably not worth as much to them as the time they could spend enjoying family and friends or pursuing their true passions and interests. For example, technically I could get a job at Starbucks and after paying for day care I would indeed take home more money. But it would be so little, it isn't worth my time. My time is much more valuably spent caring for my daughter at home, having more time for housework and art-making and promotion of my artwork, and simply being less stressed out and more energized. The way the current economy is structured, many lower-class people work two or three jobs just so they can cover all their and their family's cost of living expenses and debt payments. While many others in that same class just go unemployed or underemployed because there aren't enough jobs, and certainly not enough well-paying jobs to go around. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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marfknox
SFN Die Hard
USA
3739 Posts |
Posted - 09/16/2011 : 16:14:54 [Permalink]
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Val wrote: You can only save others when you aren't drowning.
This is the concept that has been offered as a retort.
We are drowning. |
Who is "we"? I am certainly not drowning. The fact that I have the leisure time and resources to even read about and talk about these problems puts me in a relatively privileged class. I can't give much to charities and activist organizations the attempt to help with these problems, but I can give some. I can also write about and talk about this stuff to other members of the more priviledged and fortunate classes of the world and hope to in some small way influence the direction of the conventional mindsets.
| 1.7 billion. How many are Americans? We can only impact Americans here. |
That is not at all true. There are many charities and activist organizations that Americans can donate to or become involved in that help alleviate poverty in foreign countries.
| Other countries take the aid we proffer and spend it on the ruling classes. |
While that happens, you are taking pessimism to an extreme and painting a picture that does not accurately reflect reality. You seem to be claiming that all the aid given (not counting all the private donations through a myriad of channels) is just wasted, so why bother?
| We cannot compel a foreign government to provide humanitarian aid to their own people. |
No, but the American people can and has played a small but significant role in influenced what foreign leaders our government supports and opposes, and that has had a role in global politics. Also, not all foreign aid passes through the hands of the country's leaders, and not every impoverished country's leaders are absolutely corrupt.
You keep saying that over and over as if it is something profound. No kidding life isn't fair. And there's no friggin God or salvation in an afterlife either as far as I and most of the people on this forum can tell. That motivates me to be at least some teeny tiny part of efforts toward making life more fair.
| There is nothing I can do about it. |
With that attitude, surely there is nothing you can do about it.
| So why should I wring my hands over it? |
I'm not wringing my hands over it. The reason I care about this stuff is because I enjoy my life so fully, and I can't ignore the plain fact that I have the privilege to enjoy life so fully because of pure luck of birth. I know I can't change anything big by myself, and I don't beat myself up or cry in a corner about that. But I also don't think I'm totally powerless or that I should just turn a blind eye to these important issues.
| I can fix the stuff I have power over. |
No individual has power over these huge issues. So if everyone came to your conclusion, there would be no educated people thinking up solutions and talking about them, and there would be no organizations raising funds and organizing volunteers to take action. Thankfully not everyone comes to your pessimistic conclusions.
| You are complaining about a world economy that isn't fair. Since we can only influence the world economy as it relates to the US, how is this going to help the 1.7 billion have nots? |
I certainly don't claim to know how to solve the gigantic problem of poverty in the world. However, one thing I do know if that if we give up before we even try nothing will change for the better. |
"Too much certainty and clarity could lead to cruel intolerance" -Karen Armstrong
Check out my art store: http://www.marfknox.etsy.com
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2011 : 20:31:17 [Permalink]
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I too feel the frustration that Marfknoxhas at the state of affairs our society has evolved through and to, here in the USA. I too understand the potential ticking time bomb of widespread civil unrest buy a whole army of disenfranchised youth who have not been educated properly in spite of the years of schooling they had access to. Youths who have no invitation and are not welcomed in the limited labor market that we have now. One that I see as still contracting now and into the near future at least. Just this past week (9-14-11) Michael Moore did a segment on NPR's "Talk of the Nation", selling his new book, near the end of his time (@ 26 minutes into the Moore segment half way through the whole show in the link) he repeats what he claims is/was reported in Forbes and elsewhere that the top 400 families in the US total combined wealth is MORE than the lowest 150,000,000 Americans combined. That's the bottom HALF of all Americans combined assets are less than the top 400 Americans. In 1985 there were over 25or30 independent news outlets, today I believe there are 5 or less independently owned outlets. They, the top 1000 families have the government under their control and more, IMO. Hay but I might be biased because I pay a higher tax rate than they do. Of course I'm biased and being unfair.
Just a couple years ago the Federal government bailed out the banks for more than +2 TRILLION Dollars. NOBODY said shit about not being able to afford it in congress at the time. It was done with little to no opposition. Charged to you and me your children and grand kids. But a year later the Republicans fought tooth and nails and screamed like pigs being butchered with a knife at the suggestion we bail out Detroit for a comparatively puny $150 billion. The greedy fucks finally let it go through and it has now been paid back. Any one hear how much the banks paid back to date???? After paying millions in bonuses every year without fail through all off this. Baby the American public is asleep and all their possessions are being carted out the backdoor with the government carrying the good for the crooks that are their masters.
What is also infuriating for me is this post is a waste of my time and will achieve nada, nothing. I wonder if I would be better off watching SpongeBob SquarePants cartoons right now.
I don't see anything changing until honest elections are reinstituted and unbiased truthful reporting returns. I'm not going to hold my breath. SS |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Are Jobs Becoming Obsolete? Is that Good?
