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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 03/24/2012 : 16:16:10 [Permalink]
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| I can see the concept of God being the answer to the question of where we came from, the wind, the stars etc. It appears to me that aliens visited and people named them Gods. Made monuments told stories. But that doesn;t mean I dont believe something created them. A super conscious. What created that? Another super conscious and so on. Endless like the universe. |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 16:46:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
I can see the concept of God being the answer to the question of where we came from, the wind, the stars etc. It appears to me that aliens visited and people named them Gods. Made monuments told stories. But that doesn;t mean I dont believe something created them. A super conscious. What created that? Another super conscious and so on. Endless like the universe.
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I know of no ancient artifacts or evidence discovered that can seriously be used to support the notion that "Aliens" capable of interstellar or intergalactic travel ever visited earth, ever. Do you, Storm base your belief on opinion without evidence or with evidence?
I don't consider stone structures evidence of the ability to travel the great distances needed to visit Earth from beyond. I would if it can be shown or demonstrated that stone rockets could work for that type of travel. I'm all ears and willing to learn. |
There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 17:06:49 [Permalink]
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Its my opinion through research. So many ancient texts talk of beings visiting fron the sky. Ancient Peru, Ancient Israel, etc. I thought these fantastical theories must have some truth. I propose Aliens visited then left or died. Ancient aliens Von Donnekin all pose these theories. Many people discredit it. But why can this not be a true thing. Because Aliens dont visit today? They do not have the technology? How do we know that? What other civilaztions have? Just because we have not discovered space travel does not mean others have not.And what of dimensions? Perhaps they are interdimensinal instead of interstellular. So its my op. But you can investigate yourself. You should. Your a Free Thinker |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 18:24:21 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
Its my opinion through research. So many ancient texts talk of beings visiting fron the sky. Ancient Peru, Ancient Israel, etc. I thought these fantastical theories must have some truth. I propose Aliens visited then left or died. Ancient aliens Von Donnekin all pose these theories. Many people discredit it. But why can this not be a true thing. Because Aliens dont visit today? They do not have the technology? How do we know that? What other civilaztions have? Just because we have not discovered space travel does not mean others have not.And what of dimensions? Perhaps they are interdimensinal instead of interstellular. So its my op. But you can investigate yourself. You should. Your a Free Thinker
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So is your television permanently set to the History Channel?
http://www.skepdic.com/vondanik.html |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 18:30:34 [Permalink]
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Not permanentaly.  I read alot |
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sailingsoul
SFN Addict
2830 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2012 : 18:42:44 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
Its my opinion through research. So many ancient texts talk of beings visiting fron the sky. Ancient Peru, Ancient Israel, etc. I thought these fantastical theories must have some truth. I propose Aliens visited then left or died. Ancient aliens Von Donnekin all pose these theories. Many people discredit it. But why can this not be a true thing. Because Aliens dont visit today? They do not have the technology? How do we know that? What other civilaztions have? Just because we have not discovered space travel does not mean others have not.And what of dimensions? Perhaps they are interdimensinal instead of interstellular. So its my op. But you can investigate yourself. You should. Your a Free Thinker
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You are entitled to believe as you wish and I like you have done my research and have come to a different belief previously stated. You see, just like every living thing, I only have so much time to live. While I am at present time completely healthy and have no known terminal illness that I know of, I "could" get struck by lightning tomorrow. There are many things that "could" occur tomorrow that will bring about my demise. Just because that is true I would hope, for the sake of this discussion that you might understand how foolish it would be for me have spent the last week living like tomorrow will deliver my demise simply because it could be true, based on the evidence. With limited time at hand I prefer to "research" other IMO more plausible ideas or spend my time pursuing other endeavors. If you with your research on the alien visitation can enlighten me into seeing that to be true, I'm all ears.
I believe it is important to understand and remember, that not all evidence is equal or of the same value carrying and should never carry the same weight equally. Ancient eye witness accounts of "fiery objects" are not in reality stars passing through the night sky as they were once believed to be but meteors. There is a world of difference. People have in the past and will continue into the future see things that are not accurately identified or interpreted. I believe this because history has demonstrated that the case in the past and there is no reason that it should not continue to happen again. If an Alien ship or parts of a sip were to be available for inspection I would not have to actually see the evidence it myself for my to change my beliefs and agree close to what you believe. I have done some reading on what different types of evidence there are and they are not to be treated equally and carry the same weight as I said. You could be correct but I have never seem or heard of anything that even begins to indicate that there is a likely hood Earth was ever visited. I agree it is possible but so are a whole lot of other thoughts never proven to be true. Cheers
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There are only two types of religious people, the deceivers and the deceived. SS |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2012 : 07:17:59 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
One must remember that not only is many of the bible metaphorical but it went along with the times and persucutions of christians. |
How do you know which parts to take metaphorically and which to take literally?
| Of course one could say Christians are being persecuted in this day and age because of Science and Reason. |
I am not sure what you mean here. I would say Christians throughout the word that are persecuted are being persecuted because of political, social or religious reasons.
| Also your revelations quote only includes martyrs. |
Yes, but my point was it does indicate along with the other verses that there is a community of people in heaven after we die.
| But all are saved. That was metaphorically speaking the reason why jesus was sacrifed and especially because he was sacrified next to robbers. because man cannot not sin. |
This is one of the most popular heresies of all time, Universalism. The Bible is clear if read without mental gymnastics that all will not be saved. All can be, but not all will be.
| Metaphorically speaking too, jesus Christs message was that self sacrifice for others is how we get closer to God or we become God like. |
Works as in self-sacrifice will not get you closer to God. I don’t think the Bible supports any of this.
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Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 12:58:23 [Permalink]
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| Works to get favor with God went out when the New Testement came about. Works alone was not enough for man. So if not all will be in heaven then who will. Who God decides. Did Jesus pardon the robbers, oh yes he did or as translated they will dine with him in his fathers kingdom. Jesus last words were for the salvation of mankind..Father forgive them for they no not what they do. Are you catholic? Baptist? Do you take the all the Bible literally? What form of the bible are you reading? King James? NRSV? Which is a much more accurate interpitation of the Koine Greek. The King james was highly inaccurate. We also have to remember interputaion and translation can be two different things. You can also real the interlinear version. Say in Genesis the translation was not a singular God but Gods...We will make them in our image. The sons of Gods went into the daughters of man. Metaphors? |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 03/28/2012 : 14:34:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
Works to get favor with God went out when the New Testement came about. |
Works never saved anyone in the old testament either. They were saved by grace and faith alone as well.
Originally posted by Storm
So if not all will be in heaven then who will. Who God decides. |
No, those that believe who Jesus was, repent and ask for forgiveness. Must be born again.
Originally posted by Storm
Did Jesus pardon the robbers, oh yes he did or as translated they will dine with him in his fathers kingdom. |
Yes, after the thief believed, repented and asked for forgiveness.
By the way, nobody is pardoned. That word has crept into the Christian lingo and is not accurate. When someone is pardoned nobody is punished for the crime. When a sin is committed there must be punishment for it (or God would not be good) and there are only two choices. Either the sinner will be punished or Jesus will be punished.
Originally posted by Storm
Jesus last words were for the salvation of mankind..Father forgive them for they no not what they do. |
Yes, Jesus said this. It was an honest plea just like when He was in the garden before His crucifixion, He pleaded to God for another way. This by no means implies God honored His request, especially in light of a plethora of other verses that directly contradict your interpretation of this verse..
Originally posted by Storm
Are you catholic? Baptist? |
No.
Originally posted by Storm
Do you take the all the Bible literally? |
I take the Bible literally unless the context indicates it is metaphorical.
Originally posted by Storm
What form of the bible are you reading? King James? NRSV? Which is a much more accurate interpitation of the Koine Greek. The King james was highly inaccurate. |
I like the NIV, ESV, NASB and Amplified. I do reject paraphrased Bibles such as the Message.
Originally posted by Storm
We also have to remember interputaion and translation can be two different things. You can also real the interlinear version. Say in Genesis the translation was not a singular God but Gods...We will make them in our image. The sons of Gods went into the daughters of man. Metaphors? |
No, these are not metaphores. God is a trinity, one god in three persons. Jesus, the Father and the Holy Spirit are all one God but Jesus is not the Father or the Holy Spirit, the Father is not Jesus or the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is not the Father or Jesus. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2012 : 15:35:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by Storm
Do you take the all the Bible literally? |
I take the Bible literally unless the context indicates it is metaphorical. |
How about when the context does not indicate metaphor, yet the word runs contrary with reality?
(edited to fix quoting) |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
| Edited by - Dr. Mabuse on 03/30/2012 06:12:07 |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/29/2012 : 23:33:13 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by Storm
Do you take the all the Bible literally? |
I take the Bible literally unless the context indicates it is metaphorical.[quote]How about when the context does not indicate metaphor, yet the word runs contrary with reality? |
Me, too. Some verses are simply parable or metaphor, but usually that's made clear in context. Stuff like grasshoppers having four legs and bats being classified as birds has no conceivable metaphorical meaning, nor are they inventions for mythical reasons. These are simply erroneous pre-scientific statements about nature.
[Edited to try to fix quotes.] |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 03/29/2012 23:38:38 |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 07:10:26 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dr. Mabuse
Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by Storm
Do you take the all the Bible literally? |
I take the Bible literally unless the context indicates it is metaphorical. |
How about when the context does not indicate metaphor, yet the word runs contrary with reality?
(edited to fix quoting)
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Are you asking about miracles, contradictions or statements science would say are false? I beleive miracles can happen, there are contradictions in the Bible, some I can explain and some I can't. Same with scientific facts. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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Convinced
Skeptic Friend
USA
384 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 07:15:43 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by HalfMooner
Me, too. Some verses are simply parable or metaphor, but usually that's made clear in context. Stuff like grasshoppers having four legs and bats being classified as birds has no conceivable metaphorical meaning, nor are they inventions for mythical reasons. These are simply erroneous pre-scientific statements about nature.
[Edited to try to fix quotes.]
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They may well be. I don't see a problem with this. For example the bat being a bird is what the people believed to be true at the time. The problemm with alot of apologetics is people will want to use the bible as a textbook when it is not. Same with teaching ID or creationism as science from the bible. |
Therefore be careful how you walk, not as unwise men but as wise, making the most of your time, because the days are evil. So then do not be foolish, but understand what the will of the Lord is. (Eph 5:15-17) |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 08:26:32 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Originally posted by HalfMooner
Me, too. Some verses are simply parable or metaphor, but usually that's made clear in context. Stuff like grasshoppers having four legs and bats being classified as birds has no conceivable metaphorical meaning, nor are they inventions for mythical reasons. These are simply erroneous pre-scientific statements about nature.
[Edited to try to fix quotes.]
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They may well be. I don't see a problem with this. For example the bat being a bird is what the people believed to be true at the time. The problemm with alot of apologetics is people will want to use the bible as a textbook when it is not. Same with teaching ID or creationism as science from the bible.
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Yeah, but if everyone started using such common sense, there'd be no Culture War. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 03/30/2012 : 09:23:23 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Convinced
Works never saved anyone in the old testament either. They were saved by grace and faith alone as well. |
That's not the message in Ecclesiastes.| Either the sinner will be punished or Jesus will be punished. |
That's one thing that makes Christianity so sickening: that people in the 21st century think it's a virtue to celebrate a blood sacrifice childishly demanded by an evil tyrant of a deity. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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One could understand
