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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2012 : 09:29:42 [Permalink]
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I find it interesting the pattern I've seen with defenders of woo.
They initially launch a defense of their favorite nonsense in the form of pasting large amounts of nonsense. Then, when they are challenged to make their own argument, they fade back into the woods.
Making one's own argument requires the ability to think critically. If they were capable of that, they wouldn't be defending their woo in the first place. So we see the same thing with Maharishis as with other woos. They generally disappear when challenged to think for themselves. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
| Edited by - HalfMooner on 04/25/2012 09:30:37 |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 04/25/2012 : 11:51:14 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, it's only been six days.
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Yeah. And I was amazed, given past experience, that he came back with a thoughtful post and didn't just continue his cut and paste job. We'll see... |
Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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Dr. Mabuse
Septic Fiend
Sweden
9688 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2012 : 11:54:03 [Permalink]
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| Don't give up hope. Dave_W. gave him something to think about... |
Dr. Mabuse - "When the going gets tough, the tough get Duct-tape..."
Dr. Mabuse whisper.mp3
"Equivocation is not just a job, for a creationist it's a way of life..." Dr. Mabuse
Support American Troops in Iraq:
Send them unarmed civilians for target practice..
Collateralmurder. |
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HalfMooner
Dingaling
Philippines
15831 Posts |
Posted - 04/25/2012 : 18:08:06 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Well, it's only been six days.
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Oh, good point. |
“Biology is just physics that has begun to smell bad.” —HalfMooner
Here's a link to Moonscape News, and one to its Archive. |
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MatterOrganic
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 05/01/2012 : 20:19:43 [Permalink]
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Hi Dave,
Thanks so much!!!! I'm in NY visiting my family. I'll be back around the middle of May and I definitely look forward to continuing our conversation in depth!!! I have started gathering the information I want to develop into a detailed reply for you and your readers. You have supplied good comments for me to reply to. I have not forgotten you and will not! |
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MatterOrganic
New Member
9 Posts |
Posted - 09/30/2012 : 13:46:34 [Permalink]
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Dear DaveW.,
I hope you are still there! It's the end of September, so back to school for me. Sorry it's been so long since I corresponded. I got really busy this summer, but now I can get back to what I enjoy -- learning stuff. I hope you are still willing. There may be pauses between my responses but I will always come back as long as we are making progress. OK, I know you have many points that I need to address. Let’s start with this:
YES YOU ARE RIGHT! I stand corrected. In the study, The p value for the decrease in war deaths was .019. :
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Orme-Johnson DW, Alexander CN, Davies JL, Chandler HM, Larimore WE. International peace project in the Middle East: the effects of the Maharishi Technology of the Unified Field. Journal of Conflict Resolution 1988 32(4):776-812
This is an especially critical experimental test of the hypotheses that the group practice of the TM-Sidhi program by the square root of one percent of a population would positively affect sociological measures was conducted in Israel in August and September of 1983. Based on the results of previous experiments, the research hypotheses and the specific measures to be used in the study were lodged in advance of the experiment with an independent review board of scientists in the U.S. and Israel. It was predicted that group practice of the TM-Sidhi program in Jerusalem would reduce stress in the collective consciousness of Israel and Lebanon. Time series intervention and transfer function analyses were used to study the effects of changes in the size of the group on several variables and composite indices reflecting the quality of life in Jerusalem and Israel, and also the war in Lebanon. This study shows a striking co-variation between the size of the group of TM-Sidhi participants and a composite index of quality of life that was the arithmetic average of standardized scores for crime rate, traffic accidents, fires, stock market, national mood and the number of war deaths as a measure of war intensity in Lebanon. Increases in the size of the group had a statistically significant effect on the individual variables and on the composite quality of life index. Transfer function analysis indicated that the group had a leading relationship to change on the quality of life indicators (by one day), supporting a causal interpretation. There was a 34% reduction in war intensity and a 76% reduction in war deaths during periods of high numbers of TM-Sidhi participants. Time series analysis demonstrated that the effect could not be attributed to seasonality (such as weekend effects), to holidays, or to changes in temperature. The hypothesis that the influence occurs on a fundamental and holistic level of nature is supported by the fact that the arithmetic average of the different measures produced the clearest results and by the observation that the different sociological measures tended to change independently of each other when the group size was small, but all changed coherently in a positive direction as the group size was increased.
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It was after repetitions were requested and completed that the following published study on the 7 repetitions showed the p value on the war deaths to be 1 in 10,000:
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Davies JL, Alexander CN. Alleviating political violence through reducing collective tension: impact assessment analysis of the Lebanon war. Journal of Social Behavior and Personality 2005 17(1):285-338
This study expands upon the (Journal of Conflict Resolution 1988 32(4):776-812) study of the Lebanon conflict (1983) to include a 27-month period during which there were seven assemblies of TM-Sidhi participants of sufficient size to influence the Lebanese conflict according to the square root of one percent formula. These assemblies, which ranged from a small group in the central area of fighting within Lebanon to larger groups in Israel, Yugoslavia and the Netherlands, to three groups of up to 7,800 in the U.S., were the only ones during this time period of sufficient size in relation to their proximity to Lebanon to exceed the threshold for a predicted impact there. The 821-day data base, which included daily levels of cooperation and conflict and the number of reported war fatalities and injuries, was generated using independently developed 16 point scales of cooperation and conflict. Events were coded by an experienced Lebanese coder, blind to the experimental hypotheses and unaware of the assemblies and the technology employed, from eight international new sources. Time series intervention analysis indicated that in contrast to non-experimental days, during the 93 days when assemblies where sufficiently large for a predicted impact in Lebanon there was an estimated: a) a 66% mean increase in level of cooperation among antagonists (p<10 to the -6); b) 48% reduction in level of conflict (p<10 to the -8); c) 71% reduction in war fatalities (p<10 to the -10); d) 68% reduction in war injuries (p<10 to -6). A composite Peace/War Index comprised of these variables indicated that each of the 7 assemblies had an independently positive effect on the war and that their combined influence was highly statistically significant (p<10 to the minus 19). The study employs an interrupted time series design with multiple replications, which offers a “very powerful” basis for addressing the issue of causality. Analysis showed that changes in temperature did not account for any of the improvements during the assemblies. The possible impact of religious and national holidays was controlled for.
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and then in 2009:
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Orme-Johnson DW, Oates RM. A field-theoretic view of consciousness: reply to critics. Journal of Scientific Exploration 2009 23(2):139-166
This paper replies to a critique (Fales & Markovsky, 1997) of a study reporting that group practice of the Transcendental Meditation program had a measurable effect on objective measures of the quality of life in Israel and the war in Lebanon (Orme-Johnson et al., 1988). The critics proposed various cultural/political events as alternative explanations for the results. These events could not explain the results, as indicated by (1) simple inspection of the published data; (2) statistical analyses controlling for these events; (3) analyses of reduced data sets that completely eliminated the days of the events from the analyses; and (4) analyses of six random samples of 50% of the data. Although some of the cultural/political events suggested did have a significant effect on a composite index of crime, traffic accidents, fires, war intensity, stock market, and national mood, the effects of these events were independent of the effect of the meditators and could not explain it. We argue that Maharishi’s theory of collective consciousness provides a unifying framework that explains these results through a logical structure of clearly defined, operationalized terms grounded in physiological and behavioral research, which makes specific quantifiable and socially important predictions that have been extensively replicated. Fales and Markovsky’s (1997) criticism of the International Peace Project in the Middle East (Orme-Johnson et al., 1988) is not supported by either the empirical data nor by a logical analysis of the theory. Their conjecture that social, political, and military events at the time could explain the results does not hold up with simple inspection of the published data nor with decisive statistical tests. Their position that direct interactions between humans via a field of consciousness is a “heterodox” hypothesis not worthy of publication in social science journals is challenged by 33 published studies on the Maharishi Effect as well as by several other independent research programs (e.g., Dossey, 1999; Jonas & Crawford, 1997, 2003; Nelson et al., 2002; Radin, 1997, 2002, 2004, 2006; Schlitz, 1996; Schlitz & Braud, 1997; Schlitz et al., 2004; Wackermann et al., 2003). We provide evidence that the theory of the Maharishi Effect has clearly defined, operationalizable terms and that it makes specific predictions, which have been repeatedly tested using objective, public data sources, with hypotheses being lodged in advance with independent observers. This theory has been tested on a larger scale than any other theory of conflict resolution (Orme-Johnson et al., 1990). More than any other approach in the social sciences, it has demonstrated outcomes that are directly relevant to resolving national and international conflicts and improving the quality of life in society (Assimakis & Dillbeck, 1995; Cavanaugh & King, 1988; Davies & Alexander, 2005; Dillbeck, 1990; Dillbeck et al., 1987, 1988; Gelderloos et al., 1990; Hagelin et al., 1999; Orme-Johnson, 2009; Orme-Johnson et al., 1988, 1990).
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Yogic flying
