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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 06:39:25 [Permalink]
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Ophelia Benson won't be going to TAM. She received email threats about TAM. She's informed DJ Grothe and the new Communications Director. She's said that their responses weren't nothing, but she doesn't want to go into details because, "It’s only fair to give them some time."
Meanwhile, PZ Myers recalls how threats against him were handled by the Global Atheist Conference. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
 Posted - 06/20/2012 : 07:36:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Ophelia Benson won't be going to TAM. She received email threats about TAM. She's informed DJ Grothe and the new Communications Director. She's said that their responses weren't nothing, but she doesn't want to go into details because, "It’s only fair to give them some time."
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Bummer.
I read the comments which is not a good thing to do. (Melt your brain time.) But I did see one by the person who calls herself Sastra. Benson had some kind words for her. I have dinner with her every year. (She's the reason I have had dinner with Myer's at two TAM's.) So I suppose we will be talking about this episode.
I don't know why anyone would send Benson a threatening email. What a jerk. (Jerks?). This is shaping up to being a very weird TAM.
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 08:06:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
I don't know why anyone would send Benson a threatening email. What a jerk. (Jerks?). |
Comment #8 at Ophelia's suggests one possible reason:TAM is a safe place for women to meet and we’ll beat up any women who disagree. Tongue firmly in cheek, of course.| This is shaping up to being a very weird TAM. |
Small, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 09:29:40 [Permalink]
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I don't think TAM will reach the numbers it did last year. But I'll bet that there will be at least 12 to 1400 people there, at least equaling TAM8. I could be wrong, but most of the woman signed up are going. We already knew that attendance wouldn't reach TAM9's high mark, which is what got DJ all in a tizzy about to begin with.
There's something that should be understood. Many of TAM's attendees don't really follow this stuff. TAM has a reputation that is far reaching and includes science students, casual skeptics from groups all over the country and so on. Many don't read the Jref or the FtBlogs. TAM was going to take a hit anyway, but not all because of this. And I still don't see those woman who are already signed up, pulling out. That said, I am baffled on the damage control front. I would have expected some sort of official statement by now covering this issue.
By the way, I like that BJ Krammer chimed in and left a very nice post in the comment section. It was so nice that it was ignored. Oh well... What can they say, I guess?
For my part, I am very sorry that Benson will not be there. She had already stated reservations, and I know it would have been difficult for her. But then again, if we are going to move forward, we need voices like hers to be represented. I'd like to strangle the guy (guy's?) who threatened her because he's done us no favors no matter what side we are on.
Sigh... |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 11:22:17 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
By the way, I like that BJ Krammer chimed in and left a very nice post in the comment section. It was so nice that it was ignored. Oh well... What can they say, I guess? |
He's on the shit list already for "The Great Penis Debate" (TGPD). And he chimed in as Sara Mayhew was trying to hide behind her accomplishments and act coy about TGPD, and one or more of Abbie's Slimepit denizens showed up. Let's not forget the people who have decided that rape victims who don't report are responsible for future rapes, and that rape victims who don't report do so because they're angsty. In other words, a lot of targets for anger showed up really quickly in that thread, so BJ's comment may have just gotten lost in the noise. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 17:01:01 [Permalink]
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Someone told Ophelia Benson to forward the threatening email to DJ Grothe (duh), and she said:I have sent it to DJ, I did that yesterday.
I think he’s said and done all he’s going to, which is pretty much nothing. Then Julian comments:I’m kinda disappointed to but it’s still early. I don’t honestly believe Grothe’s just going to shrug his shoulders at this. He can’t have that much contempt for FtB, can he? And Ophelia replies:That much contempt for FTB? I don’t want to be all egotistical here but I don’t think this is about FTB, it’s about me. He’s stonewalling me. I’m the one who was supposed to be a speaker this year, not FTB.
I mean sure, he’s doubtless very angry with FTB, and he did blame it for the current mess, but I’m the one he owes a little more than…nothing. She later says:Carrie did suggest that I phone them – so I did get that much response – but I don’t want to (I want a record), and that appears to be the end of that. Carrie? If she means Carrie Poppy, I guess it means that the JREF's new communications director isn't much of a pro-active sort of person, unless she tried to get some action going on this matter and got shut down. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 18:12:41 [Permalink]
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What does Benson mean by "I think he said?" Did he say it or didn't he?
I'm not being critical of Benson. But "I think he said" is really not saying much of anything.
I think there is now some kind of stubborn thing going on on DJ's part. Dang! Why don't they just post some freaking rules of conduct? New rules that use some of the suggestions that have been made?
I know they will be in our packets. But why not do something to put out this fire now? |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 18:40:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Kil
What does Benson mean by "I think he said?" Did he say it or didn't he? |
"Said and done," Kil. Benson thinks that DJ has said and done everything he is going to do. In other words, Benson thinks that DJ will do (and say) nothing about the threat she received. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 19:08:28 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Dave W.
Originally posted by Kil
What does Benson mean by "I think he said?" Did he say it or didn't he? |
"Said and done," Kil. Benson thinks that DJ has said and done everything he is going to do. In other words, Benson thinks that DJ will do (and say) nothing about the threat she received.
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What can he do? She should show it to the police, shouldn't she? He can be sorry that people are jerks or worse, but it's an email. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:34:52 [Permalink]
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Details from Ophelia:I did get two very weird threatening emails – predicting I would get shot to death at TAM... Wow! That's worse than I'd imagined.Originally posted by Kil
What can he do? |
He could have done what the Global Atheist Conference did when PZ Myers got threats: immediately promise that such things would not be the least bit tolerated and offer Benson at least a bare minimum of physical protection.
His silence suggests that he doesn't give a shit that one of his invited speakers feels unsafe enough to stay home. It's a PR disaster, even in the absence of all the other things he's said in the last month.
If I'd been in his shoes, I would have been replying right away, making every offer I could reasonably make to ensure that one of my invited guests would feel protected. Had I been making an ass of myself for the previous month, I would also have been loudly and publicly announcing that threats are an idiotic way to resolve political disputes.
DJ Grothe could have been doing quite a lot to at least try to ensure that both Ophelia Benson and the JREF's reputation are protected, but has apparently chosen not to do anything at all.| She should show it to the police, shouldn't she? |
That isn't relevant to DJ Grothe's response, or lack thereof.| He can be sorry that people are jerks or worse, but it's an email. |
He could also act like a responsible and caring president of an organization that needs popular speakers to drive attendance at an annual fundraiser.
Unless something changes drastically, I predict that TAM 2013 is going to be a disaster. Too many people (like yourself) are already invested in this year's TAM to make a huge impact on it, but nobody has registered for TAM 2013 yet. Or bought unrefundable tickets to Vegas to get to it.
Or maybe you're correct, and most of TAM attendees are simply ignorant of all this crap. But Ophelia Benson got second billing on the speakers' list (probably just due to alphabetizing), so at least a few of the ignorant people are going to be asking why she isn't there. Word will spread.
Here's another one staying away:I’d looked forward to possibly attending my first TAM this year–that’s not happening because of the totally hamster-driven, platinum-plated clusterfuck that TAM and, most sadly, the JREF have become. My previous regular donations to JREF are now going to Doctors Without Borders–they don’t seem to care about checking what sort of plumbing people have before deeming them worthy of help. This isn't going to get better if the JREF maintains its silence. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 20:48:27 [Permalink]
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Dave:
This isn't going to get better if the JREF maintains its silence. |
True. We just had a little talk about it in chat. One of the woman going was there. Same conclusion. DJ must step up and do something. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/20/2012 : 21:05:41 [Permalink]
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| And keep in mind, that according to some people on the "other side" (including outspoken defenders of DJ Grothe), it's people like Ophelia Benson who are the "bullies" whose actions "end lives." |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 09:06:09 [Permalink]
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http://csiconference.org/speakers.php
RW has posted on her page that she will be there. I'd like to be there too, but that's not going to happen.
The line up is better than TAM. And being so close, a few months off, along with Skepticicon, and is it any wonder why registration for TAM is down?
The registration is less too. But rooms cost more and I don't see that any meals are provided. (I might be wrong about that.) So that part might be a wash unless you live close by.
http://csiconference.org/register.php
Thing is, people like me who have been to many TAM's are probably giving this a hard look. And I can't say I blame them. This looks like a wonderful convention.
That said, because of the grant, and the difference in plane fare and stuff like that, there's no way I could have gone to this. But it's something to keep in mind for the future. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 06/21/2012 : 09:26:37 [Permalink]
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Yup. The right way to do things:Policy on Hostile Conduct/Harassment at Conferences
The Center for Inquiry (CFI) and its affiliates, including the Committee for Skeptical Inquiry (CSI), are educational organizations. As part of our educational mission, we hold conferences from time to time. To ensure that everyone attending our conferences is able to participate fully in them, CFI and its affiliates prohibit intimidating, threatening, or harassing conduct during our conferences. This policy applies to speakers, staff, volunteers, and attendees.
Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to, yelling at or threatening speakers or attendees.
Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to, harassment based on race, gender, sexual orientation, disability, or any other protected group status, as provided by local, state, or federal law. By way of example, abusive conduct directed at someone because of their race is prohibited.
Prohibited conduct includes, but is not limited to, sexual harassment. By way of example, unwelcome sexual attention and physical contact, such as pinching, grabbing, or groping, are prohibited.
Further detail on prohibited conduct is set forth in the long-form version of our policy which can be found on the websites of CFI and its two operating affiliates. In general, prohibited conduct includes any abusive conduct that has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with another person’s ability to enjoy and participate in the conference. Critical examination of beliefs does not, by itself, constitute harassment.
CFI and its affiliates have a zero-tolerance policy for hostile and harassing conduct. If a person engages in hostile or harassing conduct, appropriate remedial action will be taken, which may include, but is not limited to, expulsion from the conference. Threats of hostile conduct that are made prior to a conference may result in exclusion from the conference.
Persons who are the targets of, or witnesses to, hostile or harassing conduct should contact conference staff (who will wear identification). Reports of hostile or harassing conduct will be promptly addressed. Or almost the right way. I've been searching CSI's website for a while now, and can find neither hide nor hair of "the long-form version of our policy." |
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Rebecca Watson Not Appearing at TAM
