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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
 Posted - 07/18/2012 : 12:32:45 [Permalink]
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perhaps it is the heat from the emotion..H.Humbert..Aura's I have never seen an aura.. While heat remains for a few minutes on a seat.. perhaps heat from emotinal trauma last longer or affect the environment for longer periods of time..
If it was magic.. I would like to learn that trick.
fantasy prone people see things...I have never seen things. i guess I am not highly suggestable. And I have done many investigations. Any of which could have suggested I see something. Beleive me when I watch others doing investigations I think of the power of suggestion. that peoples mind create the phenomena. I also think of that in my own...but shit does not happen to me... at least I have not seen anything.
The long and the short of the ghost taxi happened to me one night I was driving and on the opposite side a taxi crossed into my lane I waited for the impact and nothing..in my rear view mirror the taxi was traveling in back of me I can remember it clear as day |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 13:26:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
perhaps it is the heat from the emotion..H.Humbert..Aura's I have never seen an aura.. While heat remains for a few minutes on a seat.. perhaps heat from emotinal trauma last longer or affect the environment for longer periods of time.. |
These sorts of "heat" are no different if the cause is "emotional trauma" or "heavy exercise." It's nothing more than vibrating atoms slowing down by releasing some of their kinetic energy as infrared-band photons. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 14:20:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
perhaps heat from emotinal trauma last longer or affect the environment for longer periods of time.. |
Why would heat generated by a person undergoing emotional stress possess different physical characteristics than heat generated in any other manner, like from exercise? Emotions can't change physics, Storm. That would be magic.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 15:35:16 [Permalink]
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originally posted by H. Humbert
Why would heat generated by a person undergoing emotional stress possess different physical characteristics than heat generated in any other manner, like from exercise? Emotions can't change physics, Storm. That would be magic.
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We do not know for sure emotions linked with death cannot change physics. We are learning new things everyday. Look what we understood about the universe 100 years ago. think of what we will know in 100 years from now. Ghosts are a phenomena we cannot explain...yet. It is not all fantasy proneor fraud or as you all say magick. Spiritualism unfortunetly ruined any real investigations of ghosts.people want to believe t hat we are talking or seeing conscious souls of the deceased. We need a new approach on investigating ghosts. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 15:57:03 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
We do not know for sure emotions linked with death cannot change physics. We are learning new things everyday. Look what we understood about the universe 100 years ago. think of what we will know in 100 years from now. |
With that kind of logic, it's a wonder you get out of bed. We might someday find out that there really are monsters under it.| Ghosts are a phenomena we cannot explain...yet. |
Which ghosts in particular? Most of the ones I've heard of have perfectly normal explanations. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2012 : 19:58:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
We do not know for sure emotions linked with death cannot change physics. |
We know with as much certainty as we can know anything that emotions cannot change physics, whether those emotions are associated with a traumatic death or not.
Any why would death be a factor anyway? You say you don't believe in souls, so what's different about a person in their moment of death than at any other time in their lives? Do they gain some new ability they don't possess otherwise?
| We are learning new things everyday. Look what we understood about the universe 100 years ago. think of what we will know in 100 years from now. |
But you are assuming that this hypothetical future knowledge will vindicate your beliefs. It's just as likely to confirm what I've been saying the entire time. I'm willing to keep an open mind, but at the same time we must make decisions on what we know now. And right now, there is zero indication that strong emotions have any direct effect on the environment. None. The very idea that brain states can effect material reality runs counters to everything we've learned about about the brain since serious study of it began. Your hypothesis violates all current neuroscience and 100+ years of research into the paranormal.
| Ghosts are a phenomena we cannot explain...yet. |
Ghosts do not exist, therefore they do not require any explanation. All the disparate phenomena that have been offered as evidence for the existence of ghosts have alternate explanations. Better explanations. And all of those better explanations point to the same conclusion: ghosts are a figments of people's imaginations.
| It is not all fantasy proneor fraud or as you all say magick. |
First of all, no one here said ghosts are magic. I said your hypothesis concerning the origin of ghosts could at best be classified as magical thinking, since it has no basis in science or reality as it is understood to operate.
And secondly, yes, I am saying that all evidence of ghosts can be explained as either error (mistaken perceptions) or fraud.
| Spiritualism unfortunetly ruined any real investigations of ghosts. |
Only if you refuse to accept the results.
| people want to believe t hat we are talking or seeing conscious souls of the deceased. We need a new approach on investigating ghosts. |
We don't need a new approach if ghosts aren't real.
Storm, you are making the mistake of trying to invent an unscientific explanation for something that we have no reason to believe exists in the first place.
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2012 : 16:15:27 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't say I was making a mistake or inventing anything. These are hypothesis on the phenomena of ghosts. I disagree with you that all ghost phenomena are fake or easily explained by mistakes. too much phenomena has happened to credable people to regular people. I never said I did not believe in souls.. just that i do not believe souls and ghosts are the same.
Do we really know if emotions do not change the environment...have we measured it? what a murder or suicide can do to the environment... how would we measure it? By killing someone?
I also would not say my hypothesis on ghosts is magickal thinking. believe me I do alot og magick and that does not coincide with it. Have none of you on this site ever experienced a ghostly phenomena and if so what was your explanation of it. |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2012 : 18:03:18 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
...These are hypothesis on the phenomena of ghosts... Do we really know if emotions do not change the environment...have we measured it? what a murder or suicide can do to the environment... how would we measure it? By killing someone? I also would not say my hypothesis on ghosts... |
It's a stretch to call your wild speculation hypotheses. The fact that you don't even know how you could measure the effects you're guessing might exist says that what you're suggesting is untestable. I mean, it's all definitely untestable because you've got nothing but vague hopes that something might be found, but it's all so vague that it may fall apart just by trying to make it less vague, thus rendering it untestable in principle.| Have none of you on this site ever experienced a ghostly phenomena and if so what was your explanation of it. |
Most of the spooky stuff I saw in my twenties is easily explained as being the result of my dumb friends trying to out-woo each other and thus getting everyone worked up emotionally.
When I was younger, a pair of damn scary green glowing eyes floating in the darkness turned out to be a couple of small leaves lit by a shaft of light. |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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Kil
Evil Skeptic
USA
13477 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2012 : 18:09:39 [Permalink]
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Storm:
too much phenomena has happened to credable people to regular people. |
I don't doubt that. What I doubt is what they think they saw. No. I don't even doubt that. What I doubt is that what they think they saw was actually what they think they saw.
We are learning a lot about how our minds function, and how we see things. Our minds play incredible tricks on us just doing its job, which is to make sense of the input it's receiving by way of our senses. I wouldn't necessarily call that hallucinating though it is. But a hallucination might simply be a misperception.
Check this out. We don't actually see with our eyes. We see with our brain's interpretation of the data it's receiving from our eyes. Our brains must make sense of whatever we are looking at. And that's no easy task because our eyes are faulty. We have blind spots that must be filled in all of the time. In low light, our eyes create images of what it expects to see in our visual field and not necessarily what's there. Our brains are pattern makers that regularly turn fairly abstract shapes it's taking in into human faces or human shapes. A tree becomes a person for example. We see faces everywhere. Our minds do that. Not our eyes. One of the least reliable senses we have, in terms of accurately describing what is around us, is our visual perception of things. That's why eye witness testimony, even by people we would consider "credible" and "regular people" is not the best testimony any longer. Forensics is much more reliable than eye witness testimony.
And our minds can be primed. So looking in so called haunted houses for ghosts, for believers, is almost asking to be tricked. Not because of a hoax or something like that. But because our minds are primed to fill in what we expect to see. And again, we are pattern makers. Please see the article I linked to. The ASSAP is a group of scientifically based paranormal investigators.
How people see ghosts
Storm:
Do we really know if emotions do not change the environment...have we measured it? |
This kind of question is typical of you Storm. You are incredibly comfortable with pulling an extraordinary "hypothesis" out of your ass. I love that about you.
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Uncertainty may make you uncomfortable. Certainty makes you ridiculous.
Why not question something for a change?
Genetic Literacy Project |
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H. Humbert
SFN Die Hard
USA
4574 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2012 : 10:07:15 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
Do we really know if emotions do not change the environment...have we measured it? what a murder or suicide can do to the environment... how would we measure it? By killing someone? |
What are you actually proposing changes in the environment? State your hypothesis as clearly as possible. What would we even be trying to measure?
| I also would not say my hypothesis on ghosts is magickal thinking. |
Oh, it clearly is. Zusne and Jones define magical thinking as the belief that (a) transfer of energy or information between physical systems may take place solely because of their similarity or contiguity in time and space, or (b) that one's thought, words, or actions can achieve specific physical effects in a manner not governed by the principles of ordinary transmission of energy or information.
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That second definition is exactly what you are doing, proposing that a person's thoughts can affect matter through principles that defy the laws of physics.
| believe me I do alot og magick and that does not coincide with it. |
Belief in magic is also magical thinking. 
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"A man is his own easiest dupe, for what he wishes to be true he generally believes to be true." --Demosthenes
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself - and you are the easiest person to fool." --Richard P. Feynman
"Face facts with dignity." --found inside a fortune cookie |
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Dude
SFN Die Hard
USA
6891 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2012 : 21:22:40 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
Well I beleive ghosts are real...whatever they maybe...souls of the dead? doubtful? left over energy from a tragic or emotianl event...most likely.. So I would like to see a real ghost...
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Only because you remain willfully ignorant of the definition of the word energy.
Willful ignorance is ugly Storm.
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Ignorance is preferable to error; and he is less remote from the truth who believes nothing, than he who believes what is wrong.
-- Thomas Jefferson
"god :: the last refuge of a man with no answers and no argument." - G. Carlin
Hope, n.
The handmaiden of desperation; the opiate of despair; the illegible signpost on the road to perdition. ~~ da filth |
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Storm
SFN Regular
USA
708 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2012 : 10:21:05 [Permalink]
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I wouldn't say out my ass I pulled it. I think it was definetly my... my..
Other than all that... thinking and hypothesis start with a thought...with possibilities... I am sure all of your famous astronmers...scientists...etc said... What if.... and how about... No ones has proposed to even measure emotions and the effect on the environment...how could we do it? So because it is not done how do we know it has no effect. I am not looking for proof of survival..I do not believe ghosts are that.
Growing up in my house was full of phenomena...none that I saw but definetly heard. Footsteps in the same room when no one was home...voices..I was a teenager then..my family still lives in that house...still experience the same things...
oh and Dave why don't you define "energy' for me... |
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Hawks
SFN Regular
Canada
1383 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2012 : 20:04:58 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
I do not believe ghosts are that. |
Why not? |
METHINKS IT IS LIKE A WEASEL
It's a small, off-duty czechoslovakian traffic warden! |
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Dave W.
Info Junkie
USA
26022 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2012 : 22:40:53 [Permalink]
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Originally posted by Storm
thinking and hypothesis start with a thought...with possibilities... I am sure all of your famous astronmers...scientists...etc said... What if.... and how about... |
Yes, all the great ideas started that way, but they didn't end that way, nor did the great thinkers resort to calling the initial guesswork "hypotheses." They wouldn't have called them that until they had figured out a way to perform a test or two.
So please don't try to compare yourself to any famous scientists until you've got the scientific chops to actually follow in their footsteps.| So because it is not done how do we know it has no effect. |
So because nobody has ever jumped 100 feet straight up into the air, how do we know it can't be done?| oh and Dave why don't you define "energy' for me... |
Storm, I've done that for you several times over the years. I really don't have the patience to do it any more, because you don't seem to actually learn anything regardless of my efforts to educate. What do I have to gain by going over it again? |
- Dave W. (Private Msg, EMail)
Evidently, I rock!
Why not question something for a change?
Visit Dave's Psoriasis Info, too. |
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